Russia says better to save Greece from a default

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Tsing Tao:
You can disagree. That is certainly your right.

But Russia acts more to thwart than to help, even when it looks like they're acting to help.

After living there for a long enough time, I am all too aware that there is an angle to their politics that outsiders (you, for instance) don't get.

Well, to be honest, I am pretty sure you're more of an outsider than myself, but I might be biased. How long have you lived there, just out of curiosity?

And yeah, obviously, Russia would often act in a way that seems to thwart whatever interests might be perceived as "positive" by Americans, but, I assure you, there's nothing special about the reasons for this sort of behavior and the US does EXACTLY the same thing. It's just all "realpolitik" and there's no altruists in that game. Everyone acts in their own best interests.

 

[Random.Capital]

Well, the Russians know a thing or two about sovereign default, that's for sure.

 

[dhpar]

Quote from Martinghoul:


And yeah, obviously, Russia would often act in a way that seems to thwart whatever interests might be perceived as "positive" by Americans, but, I assure you, there's nothing special about the reasons for this sort of behavior and the US does EXACTLY the same thing. It's just all "realpolitik" and there's no altruists in that game. Everyone acts in their own best interests.

i hear this bullshit quite often from Russians themselves - trying to put Russia on the same level as other countries and especially USA.

of course every country cares about its interest - that's trivial and does not need to be stated like some "Eureka" discovery here. but the way USA and Russia is doing geopolitics is far apart. as the saying goes, "when two are doing the same thing it is not the same" and in this case it almost can't be more different. the opposites that come to mind here is for instance: stupid/smart, naive/realistic, decent/barbarian, ineffective/effective etc...

there are many reason for that as you sure are aware (like media control, position of strength/weakness, different concept of what is still acceptable, etc)


p.s. i am talking geopolitics of the past 10 years... and yes you could have guessed that i do not like Russia - have my own personal historical reasons...

 

[Humpy]

Real politik or self serving is a basis imho for disaster. They are all pushing and shoving until circumstances pushes1 too far and a major war is sparked. eg 1st WW. 1 miserable anarchist set off the disaster waiting to happen.

Why don't politicians realize trade and peace are much better alternatives ? Get rid of nuclear weapons etc. It will be a miracle if we haven't ruined the planet by 2100 imho

 

[Martinghoul]

So what are you saying then? That the US, as far as its foreign policies go, is purer than the driven snow, while Russia is, basically, Mordor? Is that the idea?

 

[Hansel H]

Quote from dhpar:

i agree. so you see - you answered your 2 questions from above...

Russian thugs may have a few hundred billion $'s in US and European banks and actually believe that salvaging Greece through bailout is the best immediate action.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from Humpy:

Real politik or self serving is a basis imho for disaster. They are all pushing and shoving until circumstances pushes1 too far and a major war is sparked. eg 1st WW. 1 miserable anarchist set off the disaster waiting to happen.

Why don't politicians realize trade and peace are much better alternatives ? Get rid of nuclear weapons etc. It will be a miracle if we haven't ruined the planet by 2100 imho

the date of disaster is always pushed off. some times it is pushed off for centuries i.e. Malthusian etc.

 

[dhpar]

not really, although Russia certainly is Mordor. stink of vodka and sweat everywhere.

what i mind most on Russian geopolitics is a sense of fair play (kind of old gentlemen virtue). everything is dictated by the paranoid fear to guard their borders against invaders (plentifully justified by their history you could say). they can't be trusted on ANYTHING. while diplomacy usually runs on game theory basis. Russia plays every game as a non-repetitive encounter of raw power - that's what makes them special and difficult to deal with. for instance USA plays more by the rule book you could say. note that even realpolitik has its own rules - Russia does not play by any.

i despise USA foreign policy of the past 10 years. it is dumb, ineffective, costly with no vision. USA is in crisis partly because of that.

but it is true you can pick almost any country and trash it...

 

[Martinghoul]

Fair points and fairly stated, all of 'em... Can't disagree.

 

[looneytrade]

Quote from dhpar:


i despise USA foreign policy of the past 10 years. it is dumb, ineffective, costly with no vision. USA is in crisis partly because of that.

I would argue USA is in crisis mainly because of its foreign policy. What's the deficit? How much have Iraq and Afghanistan cost? Could that money have been better spent at home?