Russa Invades Georgia - Full Scale Invasion

Quote from Gringinho:
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so - the russians initiated the conflict?
Here you go again. Of course they did.

It's a irrefutable fact that it was Georgia who attacked South Ossetia.
1. It is NOT irrefutable, at least Georgia is refuting it:
Georgia, Tbilisi, 7 August /Trend News corr. N.Kirtskhalia/ Ossetian separatists resorted to well prepared provocation to involve Georgia in large-scale military actions, Georgian Minister of State for Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili said at a briefing on 7 August. Unfortunately, provocations are going on in the conflict zone, where shooting was lasting all night long. This way Tskhinvali tries to undermine the talk process. Moreover, heavy military equipment and artillery is used. They attacked the police and civil people at night and we had to retaliate,” he stressed.
http://news.trendaz.com/?show=news&newsid=1264579&lang=EN

2. South Osetia is Georgia. Claiming that Georgia attacked South Osetia is like claiming that the US attacked Texas or California.

3. It had nothing to do with Russia, Georgia did not attack Russia. This is what's irrefutable. If the US did attack Texas would you expect Mexico to invade the US because there are a lot of Mexican citizens in Texas? I don't think so.
 
a_person,

the majority of the world accepts that Georgia were the ones who initiated the latest fighting. Like I've pointed out, Russia had little to gain from starting this, and a lot to lose.

Furthermore, there was a peace agreement in place, and the region was protected by russian forces and had UNIMOB observers.

Saakashvili has a public program on which he was elected for regaining the breakaway territories - and even have a minister specifically working on "territorial integration".

These are facts.
 
Quote from Gringinho:

the majority of the world accepts that Georgia were the ones who initiated the latest fighting.
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The only thing the majority of the world accepts is that it was none of Russia's business and that their actions were illegal, immoral, aggressive and disgusting.


Quote from Gringinho:

Like I've pointed out, Russia had little to gain from starting this, and a lot to lose.
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These are facts.
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Facts? This is an opinion of one misguided anonymous blogger. The fact is the experts and all russian neighbors disagree with your opinion. You can certainly keep repeating your opinion in 200 posts like a broken record (which is what you typically do) but this repetition will still not turn your opinion into a fact, nor will it make it any less baseless, absurd and incompetent than it already is.

PS one more country came out in support of Russia - that's Venezuela. Congratulations, your ranks are growing, it's now Castro, Chavez, Putin and you. That's quite the company you keep, buddy. Still waiting for Ahmadinejaad and that dude in N. Korea to join the axis of morons though, it's not complete without them. LOL
 
a_person,

you are all about personal attacks, and little on argumentative content.

There are differing opinions out there - but you are a bigot - and seeming proudly being one. You may not care at all, but you can't change facts for history to note and remember, nor do I think you are any convincing to anyone at all. Not a success, in other words ...

You might not like that you don't know who I am or where I come from - but I make a conscious decision of not proclaiming that on discussion forums. You know I'm from Europe, and other things you might find from my posts - but not where I come from, or where I am staying. I make no attempt at hiding my ideas and opinions, and that is what matters to me - not where I am staying or what country I hail from. It's not about me - but about the issues that is interesting me. If you knew what country I was from, you would of course use that to try and smear me - as you normally do in your posts.

You are a disruptive figure, and I am used to handling your ilk - no problems at all.

Well, as I had nothing to add on the topic, I thought I'd let you have a little back from all the attacks you have been doing. Enjoy.
:)
 
Something else ...

You know, I think this conflict has really enfuriated Putin and the russian leadership. If there is not some payback coming soon, I'd be very surprised.

Something like Venezuela on board for the Sukhoi PAK-FA and then some. Not that I think South America would trust Russia's intentions - but they are not exactly sympathetic towards the US after the years of US supported military dictatorships, as well as the strict tarifs on agricultural imports from South America.

Not sure what else it could be - although I know very little on 21st century Russia-far eastern relations. I guess what would hurt the most for the US would be something to do with the economy - like some pact after the failed WTO talks - taking India, China, Russia, Brazil and the other large agricultural producers and make some trade agreement. That could effectively cut the US at the knees, as well as Europe ... Russia would not be wise to think in terms of military geopolitical goals primarily at this time.

And maybe energy deals with some of the larger eastern nations. Wouldn't surprise me if some intentions and projects were launched as a response. It would surely defend against the US diplomatic leverage towards Russia's strengthening economy.

The US considerations and rewards can primarily be seen as being militarily strategic, while it would be most effective for Russia to undercut this by further pressuring the US faltering economy. There is no lack of growth if they look eastward, and both the US and Europe look worrysome in terms of the economy.

Hmmm.
 
Quote from Gringinho:
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Something like Venezuela on board for the Sukhoi PAK-FA and then some.
Who cares? Besides after little Georgia shot down between 10 and 30 Russian military planes (depending on who's counting) I don't think anyone is all that impressed. Last I heard the russian military technology is falling further and further behind, they have serious delivery problems and a reputation of breaches of contracts, poor quality, lack of spare parts, delivery delays...

Not sure what else it could be - although I know very little on 21st century Russia-far eastern relations.
The only real leverage Russia has is their support of Iran. But I am afraid they have overplayed their hand on Iran as well. They have already demonstrated that they are not willing to cooperate with the West so the West has little/nothing to lose.

I guess what would hurt the most for the US would be something to do with the economy - like some pact after the failed WTO talks - taking India, China, Russia, Brazil
LOL, you're one funny dude, one day you are talking about some absolutely unrealistic Pakistan/Syria/Afghanistan/Iran anti-american axis that has absolutely no chance to ever be established, next day you come up with an idea of a trade pact between countries that have absolutely no common interests... This is pure wishful thinking, you're so blinded by your anti-americanism that you've become completely delusional.

PS my previous post had nothing to do with where you're from and was about your ridiculous views. Just because you hallucinate in Europe or Brazil now does not make your views any less ridiculous and the views of experts and all Russian neighbors any less valid.
 
a_person,

after the WTO Doha talks failed, there was some talks about carrying bilateral and separate talks for some of the trading partners - and Brazil has taken the initiative of G20 earlier, although Brazil put all their eggs in one basket this time.

I was only holding the hypothetical possibility open - guesswork and maybes - of course it's just a quick analysis of what could hurt the US the most - and most effectively - for russians (or others).

Honestly, I do expect the russians to try to get even with the US for the Georgia conflict over time, and economics seem a more effective battlefield than military efforts for Russia now.

The US has with it's USD 600 bn military budget a large chunk of the world military spending, and the commercial interests behind this must be quite a powerful industry as well as powerful organizations. Cheney and other policy makers exert their influence in politics - yet we don't always see them directly.
 
Quote from Gringinho:
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I was only holding the hypothetical possibility open - guesswork and maybes - of course it's just a quick analysis of what could hurt the US the most - and most effectively - for russians (or others).
All your "hypothetical possibilities" boil down to some kind of completely unrealistic alliances that would hurt the US the most. It's highly dubious that these kinds of alliances would bring the US to its knees if established as you fantasize. But the point I am actually making is that for a million different reasons the possibility of these alliances to ever be created will remain hypothetical for centuries to come. So keep on dreaming.

Honestly, I do expect the russians to try to get even with the US
Oh I am sure they'd love to. The question is whether they can. If you think the US is a paper tiger - Russia is 100 times worse - low fertility, high mortality rates, rapidly-shrinking population, crumbling health and education systems, decaying infrastructure, corruption, mass alcoholism (40% of their male population are estimated to be alcoholics).

economics seem a more effective battlefield
Russia does not produce anything, its nice to have oil and gas of course but how is it supposed to fight an economic war if it produces nothing at all and is dependent on the west for absolutely everything else, including the technology and machinery to pump oil and gas. Russia is not even able to produce competitive military equipment any more.
 
LOL, and here is another Russian myth anti-american morons have fallen for:

Human Rights Watch: Russia inflating casualty figures
August 14 2008

Anna Neistat of Human Rights Watch, who is leading a team investigating the damage in South Ossetia, told the Guardian that Russian estimates of 2,000 dead were "suspicious".

Neistat said doctors at Tskhinvali hospital gave figures that 273 wounded had been treated there and 44 dead had been brought to the city morgue. "By day five of a conflict one expects that there is some kind of list of the dead and injured.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/14/georgia.russia1


Of course there is nothing new or particularly surprising here, Russia (and their arab allies btw) does it every time, they did it during the Chechen wars, hostage situations etc. And the same bunch of cretins keep falling for the same bunch of lies every single time.
 
a_person,

feel free to edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war so that it reflects your view that the russians were the ones who started the attack. Good luck with that.

You might also inform CNN of how you feel, so they can correct their "facts" on the introduction to their Georgia conflict of who were attacking Tskhinvali, and who responded. Good luck with that as well.

However, try to create a more trustworthy image than president Saakashvili have been conveying to reporters, with his media barrage using unconfirmed rumors and speculation that he incorporates into his press and public appearances - as reported by US reporters interviewed by CNN. Good luck with that too ...
 
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