Russa Invades Georgia - Full Scale Invasion

[destroyer]

Calling Russia the loser of this conflict already is way too premature. Most of the world is still silent, we don't know who will participate in punishing Russia and who will remain silent. If a sufficient number of nations (China and India would be particularly interesting) decides to stay silent, Russia might get by just fine. If they do that, if they come out of this without any significant damage, I'd say they won the war hands down, because getting this message out to the world, that they are powerful, that the West does not frighten them and that neighboring countries needs to respect them (by not allowing the US to do anything that might threaten Russian rise to power (missile defense systems)), is exactly what Russia needs.

Medvedev has just signed the cease-fire. Give it a couple of months and things will probably get back to normal - except for the fact that now the world knows how powerful Russia is.

The question now is not what Russia will do - I believe we all know that Russia simply wants to keep growing until they're a superpower again. The question is what the US will do. If they try to stop it, try to keep an upper hand by having a bunch of satellite states at the door step of Russia, I'm quite positive we'll be heading into a new cold war. If McCain gets elected, that's probably inevitable. If the US tries something new on the other hand, if they respect Russia and allow them to grow as powerful as they can be without trying to stop them, only God knows what will happen. Maybe the Russians in time can become a responsible superpower, maybe they can be as friendly to the US as the EU is. This is probably what will happen if Obama gets elected. In time though, maybe they'll give another go at world domination. That's the one good thing about the US, as long as we're friendly to them at least we know they won't invade us.

Quote from Gringinho:
If you knew what country I was from, you would of course use that to try and smear me - as you normally do in your posts.

His knowledge about European countries is extremely limited though, so I doubt he'd manage to smear anyone but himself.

 

[a_person]

Quote from destroyer:

The question is what the US will do.
It's truly ironic that being Europeans you two are not even wondering what Europe will do. Especially given the fact that this shit is going on in your, not our backyard. I guess it's because you know the answer - spineless, impotent, politically-correct, brainwashed, pacifistic Europe will do absolutely nothing even if Russia reoccupies Ukraine, Poland, the Czech republic, the Baltic states etc. Oh, you will of course keep bashing the US and wondering why won't we come over and do something about it.

His knowledge about European countries is extremely limited though, so I doubt he'd manage to smear anyone but himself.
LOL, why don' t you admit that you people are ashamed of your own countries. And btw you should be.

 

[Gringinho]

a_person,

I think Europe already acted pretty quickly in this conflict. There is not a whole lot that Europe can do to right the geopolitical outcome, unless stability is reached through good diplomacy. Both NATO and EDA are involved here.

The pacifist Europe is preferable to an aggressive Europe. Sometimes you call me an european, sometimes you call me a brazilian. I guess I understand and know both countries/regions pretty well, though.

In geopolitical terms, and especially regarding the broader strategic implications, Russia and Europe are not winners in this conflict. Russia of course has immediate rewards in demilitarizing Georgia, and demanding the 6km buffer around Abkhazia and South Ossetia - as well as foiling NATO membership for Georgia. However, they have a huge downside when it comes to all their neighbours who formerly made up the eastern bloc as well as relations to the whole of Europe and the US. And Russia is well aware that they are also dependent on good economic relations to especially Europe, buying their natural gas and maybe soon getting lots of agricultural products from Russia.

 

[a_person]

Quote from Gringinho:

I think Europe already acted pretty quickly in this conflict.
Yep, it did not take them long:

There is not a whole lot that Europe can do
Yep, Europe is impotent and spineless and everyone knows that.

unless stability is reached through good diplomacy.
Yeah, like Iran for example. Five years of "good diplomacy" and absolutely nothing to show for it. This "good diplomacy" also did miracles for the Chechens when they were carpet-bombed by your peace-loving, minorities-protecting Russian buddies. And do you want to know why their diplomacy never works - because no one takes Europe seriously any more, because Europe is impotent and spineless and everyone knows that.

The pacifist Europe is preferable to an aggressive Europe.
Especially it's preferable to their muslim minority and Imperialistic Russia. Personally I would prefer a Europe capable and willing to defend itself and its allies against internal and external enemies.

Sometimes you call me an european, sometimes you call me a brazilian.
Aren't you claiming to be a european currently living in Brazil?

I guess I understand and know both countries/regions pretty well
Well, perhaps. You certainly represent European and South American anti-americanism in all its glory.

And Russia is well aware that they are also dependent on good economic relations to especially Europe
And their way to achieve good relations is blackmail and intimidation. Always was, always will be, a pacifist Europe is their "dream come true". They will keep milking it for generations to come.

 

[arealpissedgoy]

Quote from a_person:



There is not a whole lot that Europe can do
Yep, Europe is impotent and spineless and everyone knows that.

.

I don't think the zionist-jews want europeans growing balls.

If that happens, who would fund your welfare state?

 

[a_person]

Quote from arealpissedgoy:

who would fund your welfare state?

I have a sneaking suspicion that the state of Israel is secretly funded by Jews.


The country's GDP (Purchasing power parity) in 2006 reached $195 billion according to the International Monetary Fund or $179 billion according to the World Bank. GDP per capita has been $31,767 according to the International Monetary Fund in 2007 or $26,200 in 2006 according to the CIA World Factbook. $31,767 is on par with most Western European countries like France or Italy, while $26,200 is lower than most Western European countries, except Portugal but higher than all Eastern European countries and close to the average for the European Union.

The economy grew by 8% in the last quarter of 2006, the fastest growth of any Western nation.

The major industrial sectors include metal products, electronic and biomedical equipment, processed foods, chemicals, and transport equipment. Israel possesses a substantial service sector and the Israel diamond industry is one of the world's centers for diamond cutting and polishing. It is also a world leader in software development and is a major tourist destination.

American billionaires and business tycoons including Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Donald Trump have each praised Israel’s economic environmentand the country was the destination for Berkshire Hathaway's first investment outside of the USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Israel

You have nothing to worry about Pissed Goy but thank you for your concerns anyway

 

[arealpissedgoy]

Quote from a_person:



You have nothing to worry about Pissed Goy but thank you for your concerns anyway

The only concerns I have are my tax dollars funding fanatic idiots like you who think they talk to God.

I'm sure the 100 Billion Euro Germany has been sending over the past decade has helped build more than a few roads in the Negev desert.

Let's not even begin to discuss the multiple 100 Billion USD the poor American taxpayer has shipped over to the Zionist state in the form of "military" and "agriculture" aid.

The last time I checked, the zionist state was no where near "western europe"

This imbecile is the same poster who keeps on posting how "more than 100%" of nobel prize winners are jews. Very obviously a card carrying member of the 20th percentile with low self esteem.

 

[a_person]

Quote from arealpissedgoy:

The only concerns I have are my tax dollars funding fanatic idiots like you who think they talk to God.
Your personal share is about $8 a year. I realize that it's a lot of money for you and it certainly is a valid concern so please feel free to call your congressman/senator and demand that aid to Israel be stopped. You can't blame Israel for taking the money, can you? Anybody takes money when offered. The smart thing to do is to blame our government for giving the money instead (assuming you disagree with the policy of course given that most Americans don't have any problem with supporting the jewish state).

BTW, While you're at it you might as well demand that our aid to arabs be stopped as well, according to Ron Paul we give more money to them than to Israel and they are far more fanatical than those secular zionists. You might also consider demanding that our troops be brought home from South Korea, Japan and Western Europe cause it costs us significantly more to "defend" them than the amount we give to Israel.

See, if you whine to your congressman about our aid to Israel only he can somehow assume that Pissed Goy is a jew-hating antisemite and not take you as seriously as your so obviously intelligent and well-thought out views deserve. So I would advice you to discuss all our foreign aid and military commitments with your elected representatives without singling out Israel.

The last time I checked, the zionist state was no where near "western europe"
The proper way to refer to Israel is "the zionist entity".

This imbecile is the same poster who keeps on posting how "more than 100%" of nobel prize winners are jews.
Actually 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2007 and 37% of all US recipients during the same period. Given that the Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population it's pretty amazing, don't you think?
http://www.jinfo.org/Nobel_Prizes.html

 

[Gringinho]

Nothing very surprising has happened after the cease-fire agreement, although Russia has seemed to get more settled and more calculating now - maybe the tide is turning a little in what they seem to be able to achieve. They should obviously pull out of Georgia, otherwise they will further complicate the situation.

Nice to see former NATO supreme commander General Wesley Clark also picking up on the point that Georgia's president Saakashvili had been warned by Condoleezza Rice not to provoke Russia just weeks before they attacked - that is a crucial issue for getting to the bottom of what really happened. Of course there is a shitload to deal with after all this has unraveled in terms of diplomacy. Wesley Clark is also a greater promoter of united action and policy, as well as not only seeing the military options as the most effective for any situation. I personally think he shows a lot of wisdom and integrity in his statements. http://securingamerica.com/ , and for anyone interested in philosophy it is obviously important that you "live philosophy" and put into practical terms the ideas that form your thinking - from statements to interactions, since these ultimately reflect on your philosophy. Clark is a good example of this, integrating his philosophy that involves more than himself and direct relations.

Seldom do nations' populations declare war on each other - history shows that there are policy makers, corporations, organizations and individuals who are the first ones making the preparations and dragging/forcing nations into play. I definitely think this was the case here.

 

[Gringinho]

Now things are getting more interesting ...


Syria and Belarus are venting the idea of hosting russian missiles. The syrian leadership is in Moscow for strategic talks.

It's now also clear that in strictly geopolitical terms - Europe is the big loser, Russia has little to gain with more to lose and the USA has a lot to gain from the geopolitical game that is going on. The conservative US republican camp also got a boost in a critical time for the presidential election.

Consequences could also be that space-programme international cooperation for establishing permanent structures on the moon are going to be scrapped. Also, Iran are accelerating their widening of the nuclear programme with several reactors planned.

I do think it's clear that external participants were instrumental in planning and starting this conflict with destabilizing Georgia, hurting the increasing russian economic influence while promoting US strategic and economic interests. Just like the "prison industry" of the US, the defense industry has strong players and subcontractors. It's not difficult to find groups with many common interests and probably willing to sacrifice civilians and their properties for their own selfish gains as well as the political advantages ...

It is bleeding obvious that Russia is responding to provocations, and not the ones initiating the provocations. Hopefully, warmongers are not given a free ride in the media and will be met with tough questions, instead of journalists hoping for more exciting "adventure".