Ron Paul says healthcare not a right

[Angrycat]

Quote from Kassz007:

Education absolutely should be a right. This is one of the reasons (or selling points at least) for the war in Afghanistan. How does this befuddle you?

What is considered a right changes all of the time as the years pass. Think of a woman's right to vote, or the whole slavery issue. I would not be surprised at all if in 100 years it is considered a right to have access to broadband internet, just as a country's citizens should have the right to appropriate health care.

You're confused.

The right to vote is the right to participate in a government that governs that individual. No taxation without representation, remember?

You absolutely have a right to anything that you can obtain for yourself without stealing - education, for example. BUT, if you believe it is your RIGHT to FORCE someone to spend their resources educating you, then you violate property rights. That is theft. Why do you have rights to others' property?

The problem is that if you have right to absolutely everything that you desire, then that means there are no private property rights. When there are no property rights, everything becomes a public good. When everything is a public good, who will have the incentive to produce it?

This is the fundamental problem faced by my homeland - the Soviet Union. And BTW, my aunt and uncle were both surgeons there before moving to Toronto. They were shocked to find that in some ways the Canadian health service is worse than the Soviet Union's (again, we're talking worse for serious illness, not basic stuff).

This isn't brain surgery. You just have to think about your own incentives.

 

[AlpineTrout]

Quote from Kassz007:

I live in Canada ....... I've never had any real major medical issues so I'm not entirely sure how the system works in that regard (major surgeries etc), but in terms of general health care, I can absolutely choose my doctor.

Driving during the summer in Death Valley with a radiator half full of water isn't a problem either, unless you overheat.

You might learn about the problems of socialized medicine down the road. Hopefully you won't.

 

[AlpineTrout]

Quote from Thunderdog:

That's just nonsensical fear mongering, and the Republicans do it well with their misleading ads. Have you noticed that the scare ads are voiced over by people who sound a lot like Mr. Rogers talking to children? The condescension is palpable. In their defense, they know how to talk to their base.

I don't think it's far-fetched, considering that's EXACTLY how it was going to be under Hilliary Care.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from AlpineTrout:

I don't think it's far-fetched, considering that's EXACTLY how it was going to be under Hilliary Care.

And considering that this is the way it is in every socialized medicine country that has ever run into cost issues.

Also, the choice is most important when it comes to specialists - not GPs. That's when the stakes are higher.

Don't pay much mind to Thunderpiss. He's team Democrat, so whatever tumbles out of Barney Frank's mouth (take that any way you want), he's unquestioningly for. For those of us who are simply concerned about liberty and decide on principle rather than political team, he will always make little sense and all of his answers are purely useless Republican bashing. He writes little of value.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Angrycat:

...For those of us who are simply concerned about liberty...

...from thinking?

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from Angrycat:

You're confused.

The right to vote is the right to participate in a government that governs that individual. No taxation without representation, remember?

You absolutely have a right to anything that you can obtain for yourself without stealing - education, for example. BUT, if you believe it is your RIGHT to FORCE someone to spend their resources educating you, then you violate property rights. That is theft. Why do you have rights to others' property?

The problem is that if you have right to absolutely everything that you desire, then that means there are no private property rights. When there are no property rights, everything becomes a public good. When everything is a public good, who will have the incentive to produce it?

This is the fundamental problem faced by my homeland - the Soviet Union. And BTW, my aunt and uncle were both surgeons there before moving to Toronto. They were shocked to find that in some ways the Canadian health service is worse than the Soviet Union's (again, we're talking worse for serious illness, not basic stuff).

This isn't brain surgery. You just have to think about your own incentives.

So do you believe you are being stolen from because the government takes your taxes to build roads? To fund the military? It is the exact same argument. To someone who doesn't drive, the government is stealing their property and giving its benefits to others. I am all for the free market, but a certain level of government involvment is necessary/beneficial. And I believe this includes healthcare.

I don't mind paying taxes to build roads so my fellow Canadians can travel, same as how I don't mind paying taxes so my fellow Canadians can afford appropriate health care.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Angrycat:

...principle rather than political team...

"Principle" my ass. You're just an unthinking ideologue. A drone. If your head were removed, you'd die from starvation.

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from AlpineTrout:

Driving during the summer in Death Valley with a radiator half full of water isn't a problem either, unless you overheat.

You might learn about the problems of socialized medicine down the road. Hopefully you won't.

The same analogy can be used to for the USA system. Non-socialized medicine is fine as long as you don't overheat. At which point it becomes unaffordable to repair your car.

 

[jueco2005]

Philosophically you sound right. But that would be animal philosophy.

We are humans my friend, we live in something called society. Google it so you might rethink before posting. you don't look too good.

Quote from Angrycat:

You're confused.

The right to vote is the right to participate in a government that governs that individual. No taxation without representation, remember?

You absolutely have a right to anything that you can obtain for yourself without stealing - education, for example. BUT, if you believe it is your RIGHT to FORCE someone to spend their resources educating you, then you violate property rights. That is theft. Why do you have rights to others' property?

The problem is that if you have right to absolutely everything that you desire, then that means there are no private property rights. When there are no property rights, everything becomes a public good. When everything is a public good, who will have the incentive to produce it?

This is the fundamental problem faced by my homeland - the Soviet Union. And BTW, my aunt and uncle were both surgeons there before moving to Toronto. They were shocked to find that in some ways the Canadian health service is worse than the Soviet Union's (again, we're talking worse for serious illness, not basic stuff).

This isn't brain surgery. You just have to think about your own incentives.

 

[jueco2005]

Well said.

Quote from Kassz007:

The same analogy can be used to for the USA system. Non-socialized medicine is fine as long as you don't overheat. At which point it becomes unaffordable to repair your car.