Hardly. I think you need to reacquaint yourself with the preamble: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2509965#post2509965
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Ron Paul says healthcare not a right
- Thread starter Kassz007
- Start date
Quote from Shreddog:
Is healthcare a right? Who gives a crap. It's a pointless argument.
But if you want to have a working affordable healthcare system, everyone has to participate and pay roughly the same amount regardless of their health. The healthy subsidize the unhealthy on the assumption that someday they too will be unhealthy. We all subsidize poor people who can't pay.
This is done for the common good, just as my taxes pay for roads I don't drive and to educate kids I don't have.
I would agree, because it seems there are very many things that are not granted to U.S. citizens as basic rights in the Constitution that we have come to expect our Federal and State Governments to provide, so far as possible, to all. Examples would be roads, bridges, general education, etc. None of these things are part of our individual rights laid out in the constitution are they? It seems it's a matter of priorities. If forced to make a choice between say smooth roads and affordable health care, i think i would opt for health care and rough roads. I'd definitely put health care high up on the list, rather have it than 6000 nuclear warheads or an F22, for example.
It seems the really big problem we just can't solve is that there are so many individuals who are getting rich from the current U.S. Medical Cartel, and this Cartel has so much political influence via its financial contributions to politicians and mass media advertising, that no one in government dares to broach the subject of just who it is that will makes less money if costs are brought down to a level commensurate with that in other developed countries. Until we break the strangle hold of the Cartel, i don't see that much progress can be made. I hope i'm wrong.
Quote from AlpineTrout:
Why would any sane, rationally thinking person want socialized medicine, unless they absolutely couldn't afford insurance?
Therein lies the issue. Those who can afford it don't care. Those who can't afford it suffer. I suspect there are many more Americans who can't afford it than can afford it.
Say I don't agree with the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, does that mean that I don't have to pay the taxes that go to fund those unnecessary wars?
Get this goons, the VA and the military are socialistic endeavors, as they are government functions funded by tax dollars...
Domestic tranquility, general welfare, and a more perfect union isn't going to happen when large numbers of people can't afford adequate health care...
Get this goons, the VA and the military are socialistic endeavors, as they are government functions funded by tax dollars...
Domestic tranquility, general welfare, and a more perfect union isn't going to happen when large numbers of people can't afford adequate health care...
Quote from Scataphagos:
Healthcare isn't a right primarily because (1) there are significant costs associated, and (2) the actions of another (healthcare provider) are required.
We don't consider it a "right" in this country to require/force someone to provide us a service at no cost.
Quote from TraderZones:
Funny, the USA easily leads the world in charity. From Tsunamis to Red Cross to places like Kuwait, when Iraq decided it was the 19th province...
In WW2, we sank something like 95+% of all Japanese shipping (the British and Dutch sank a few) and pretty much fought the war with minimal help from countries that, including China & the Philippines and many others. We kept Britain alive during the Nazi bombing attacks and represented the majority of victories from countries that were not directly occupied.
Then we almost singlehandedly rebuilt Germany and Japan under the marshall plan. And we forgave a huge amount of war debt from countries like France and England.
An awful lot of American resources went into Korea and Vietnam when communism desired to take over both peninsulas, when IN fact, during the Chinese and Russian communist era and expansion into places like Eastern Europe and Mongolia, Canada may not have existed as a free country today if the US had not opposed them militarily.
Tens of millions of immigrants and refugees, including > 10 million illegal immigrants come to the USA, desiring to send money home to help many more people in poorer countries.
Different? Most of the world complains about almost everything. But it costs little to be a critic. You might find if Canada had 300 million people along with their current economy, you might have been similar to the US, and might not be so self-righteous.
TZ,
Don't misinterperet my comment as me being anti-American, because I'm not. I am not niave to the fact that the USA contributes a great deal to the rest of the world, and has for many years. But I think you bring up a different point entirely, being that why the USA contributes so much to the rest of the world yet will not help their own citizens via cheaper healthcare.
Quote from Thunderdog:
But a sizeable percentage of your population cannot afford it! So are you saying fuck your countrymen? And didn't Obama say that if you like your existing health insurance plan that you would be able to keep it?
That's exactly right, a PERCENTAGE of our population cannot afford it. A small %. And btw, they already have medical care. Ask anyone down here in Atlanta where the poor go for care. Grady Hospital.
Like I said before, give out friggin healthcare insurance cards to the 20M that don't have healthcare, if that will keep us from having to go to your type of socialized medicine.
Quote from AlpineTrout:
Ah...... Kassz I think you just spilled the beans.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Where have I heard that before? I'll bet Angrycat can tell you. And, it didn't work out to well.
I hope more people with Angrycat's idealogy move here from abroad, then maybe we can get this place straightened out.
Wrong. Don't exprapolate my comments to the extreme...I am speaking strictly in terms of healthcare and nothing else. I am a free market advocate and nothing else. The only reason I support socialized healthcare is due to the human aspect. Instead of a few people getting great care, I would rather see all people get <b>at least some care</b> without having to mortgage their house to get it.
If adequate health care is a privilege and not a right...
Then only the privileged get health care...
So much for "We The People"
More like "We The Privileged"
"We The Privileged" is not really the American way, is it?
Then only the privileged get health care...
So much for "We The People"
More like "We The Privileged"
"We The Privileged" is not really the American way, is it?
And what about the many who have worked all their lives, accumulated a few assets and are now barely hanging on and can't afford the health care coverage they need? Must they lose everything to qualify for the aid you refer to? Serious question. I don't know the finer points of your system.Quote from AlpineTrout:
...Like I said before, give out friggin healthcare insurance cards to the 20M that don't have healthcare, if that will keep us from having to go to your type of socialized medicine.
P.S. 20 million? It was about 46 million in 2007. That's over 15% of your population. Sorry, but if you had any national pride, you'd be embarrassed.