Ron Paul says healthcare not a right

achilles28 · Jul 17, 2009

Quote from Random.Capital:

All taxation is a forced transfer of wealth.

ALL TAXATION.

The founding fathers were not opposed to taxation, and even went to the trouble of completely rewriting the constitution to make sure the federal government, which they were now conveniently part of, had the ability to impose taxes.

What is it about the 10th Amendment you don't understand? Need some help?

Thunderdog · Jul 17, 2009

I think it's ironic that the people here who rail against the type of health care system the Obama administration has in mind are essentially mouthpieces for the very interests that gouge them, either directly or otherwise. I think Bugs captured the essence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo

Kassz007 · Jul 17, 2009

Quote from cgar:

Do the Canadians and UK citzens think thier systems are good and cheap?Are you satified with your system?

Anyone.

Canadian - and yes, good and cheap. Mind you I've never had any major health problems.

Kassz007 · Jul 17, 2009

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

as an american living in canada, i think the canadian system is fantastic considering the fact that it's universally available. you hear all these horror stories from americans about how canadians have to wait forever to get care and how ppl die waiting on care, and how conditions irreversibly worsen while awaiting treatment ad infinitum, all bullshit... i do however second beaver's assertion re: fast, quick, cheap

my gf is a nurse and my buddy is a doctor so i have pretty reliable sources of information. also, private healthcare IS available in canada, it's not like canada outlawed private healthcare... they simply provide public healthcare too....

you know, kinda like the new york metro vs taking a cab???

in the usa very few people can afford healtcare anymore... many people will not even go to a doctor for severe stomach pain because they can't pay for it... only to later find out it's cancer when they start yaking up blood and go to the ER

+1

odysseus11 · Jul 17, 2009

GREAT post lmr21, and perfectly said!
Odysseus

Quote from lrm21:

Wow its amazing to see so much ignorance.

1) Rights are not granted by the government they are inalienable.

2) You have rights whether they government acknowledges those rights or not.

3) The government cannot take away a right or grant a right.

When we speak of rights some refer in summary to the declaration of Independence, while not a legal document it lays the foundation for understanding that your basic inalienable rights transcend government or man.

Our rights are affirmed in the constitution by placing restrictions on what the Federal government can do.

The whole purpose of free liberal republican democracies. Are that individuals are protected to pursue their own interests. Irrespective of your government frame work my rights are the same whether I live in New York, Baghdad or London.

A legitimate government plays a modest role and maintains the basic social order and the safeguarding of individual rights.

Notice that goverment again does not determine your rights. Goverment can oppress your right, and can win the battle over your life but it does not make it legitimate.

"Healthcare", "clean air", "safe highways", "terror free airplanes" are not rights, these are not guaranteed because they are not inalienable.

You can not be born with "healthcare", just as you are not born with "clean water."

Your rights are there because they are God Given, in summary the right to life and liberty and property. In fact the right to property encompasses all rights because it includes the right to your body, mind, the product of your labor, and your right to defend and secure what is yours.

Government Healthcare is a service and in order to deliver a service for "free" from your perspective as the consumer it implies slavery of another. You need to steal property from another in order to provide yourself the service of healthcare.

Government mandates are in fact illegitimate because they place the interest of the collective over the right of the individual. Notice a collective can never have rights only Individual have rights.

Free people will resist such encroachment, given the United States has the largest concentration of "Free" thinking people, I believe these attempts will fail politically or worse case violently.

Angrycat · Jul 17, 2009

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

yes, but the french also get alot better care from what i can tell... last time i was in france people who were "very sick" were getting in home care... the doctors come to your house... just like the old days in the usa... i'd also have to challenge the notion that europe "severely limits immigration".... it seems to me that many european countries are being overun by middle eastern immigrants....

It's not difficult to overrun a country of only 69 million people. Also, France is more liberal with immigration from former colonies - but then treats the immigrants like second class citizens.

Yes, France has pretty good care. But, it's a lot easier to administer that care to a much smaller and healthier population than in the United States. And that's a major point.

Plus, the new bill removes the choice of private insurance. You can still get private insurance, but its structure is mandated by government and consumers can't shop around for plans. That's FAR more restrictive than European systems such as France and Sweden's. So, we'll have much less choice and a much sicker and more expensive population. In other words our national health service will be more nightmarish than Britain's. It won't even begin to resemble France.

Ivanovich · Jul 17, 2009

France has good care until all the God damned pharmacists go on strike and you can't get a decongestant ANYWHERE because all the shops are closed. I remember that hell.

jueco2005 · Jul 17, 2009

From a philosophical point of view you are 100% right. But this is not philosophy 101. This is real life.

We are forced to pay for so many things that It doesn't bother me to pay for a million more.

If you oppose healthcare, you must also oppose having a city, state or federal police. You must also oppose the army, the border patrol, immigration and many other stuff that we normally pay for (way more than healthcare) without much bitching in forums like this one.

Quote from lrm21:

Wow its amazing to see so much ignorance.

1) Rights are not granted by the government they are inalienable.

2) You have rights whether they government acknowledges those rights or not.

3) The government cannot take away a right or grant a right.

When we speak of rights some refer in summary to the declaration of Independence, while not a legal document it lays the foundation for understanding that your basic inalienable rights transcend government or man.

Our rights are affirmed in the constitution by placing restrictions on what the Federal government can do.

The whole purpose of free liberal republican democracies. Are that individuals are protected to pursue their own interests. Irrespective of your government frame work my rights are the same whether I live in New York, Baghdad or London.

A legitimate government plays a modest role and maintains the basic social order and the safeguarding of individual rights.

Notice that goverment again does not determine your rights. Goverment can oppress your right, and can win the battle over your life but it does not make it legitimate.

"Healthcare", "clean air", "safe highways", "terror free airplanes" are not rights, these are not guaranteed because they are not inalienable.

You can not be born with "healthcare", just as you are not born with "clean water."

Your rights are there because they are God Given, in summary the right to life and liberty and property. In fact the right to property encompasses all rights because it includes the right to your body, mind, the product of your labor, and your right to defend and secure what is yours.

Government Healthcare is a service and in order to deliver a service for "free" from your perspective as the consumer it implies slavery of another. You need to steal property from another in order to provide yourself the service of healthcare.

Government mandates are in fact illegitimate because they place the interest of the collective over the right of the individual. Notice a collective can never have rights only Individual have rights.

Free people will resist such encroachment, given the United States has the largest concentration of "Free" thinking people, I believe these attempts will fail politically or worse case violently.

Scataphagos · Jul 17, 2009

Quote from jueco2005:

"... We are forced to pay for so many things that It doesn't bother me to pay for a million more

Well, it SHOULD bother you... a great deal.

Government SHOULD be a "collective sacrifice for the common good"... that is, government should be paid to provide "things" for society which individuals cannot provide for themselves... Like national defense, police and fire protection, etc.

Government should NOT be "dominating every aspect of individual life... with their head so far up your ass you can taste the Brylcreem in the back of your throat".. :mad:

Thunderdog · Jul 17, 2009

Quote from Scataphagos:

...Government SHOULD be a "collective sacrifice for the common good"... that is, government should be paid to provide "things" for society which individuals cannot provide for themselves... Like national defense, police and fire protection, etc.

Adequate health care?