Richard Dennis and Turtles In Chicago Tuesday

Quote from marketsurfer:

i guess you don't know Roy credits Vic with much of his market knowledge. break out work? oh really.......

by the way, VN has made more over time for his clients than he has lost in both blow outs.....

surf
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I met with Roy's COO.AnD specifically ask how the systems are related between Roy and vic.. There is no relationship, so stop talking about stuff u don't know. Have u ever met Roy? U are just a outsider

" oh really" Is that the best attack against trend following you can come up with? Go run a backtest to falsify breakouts instead of relying on Vic to tell u it doesn't work, But I guess u don't know how to do one, the only thing u know is to resort to authority, just the kind of ignorance that Vic have been railin against...
 
Quote from nokomisjeff:

Jem,

With 5200 posts under your belt, how much time do you devote to trading and what does your P&L look like? Is trading your sole means of support or do you have a primary job at 7/11 and you spend most of your time here criticizing your betters? It's easy to criticize people who have actually done something more than sitting in their mother's basement writing tomes to ET.

Criticizing Vic is easy when you're either no trader, a paper trader or just trade 1 lots. I don't know you, but I do know Victor very well, and he's a better trader than me(and I'm pretty good over 30 years), and I'll lay 7 to 5 that he's a better trader than you. You waste your time making 5000+ posts on ET while Vic is glued to the screen, trading.......you make the call.
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That looks like an ad hominem argument to me, which is strange coming from a professed Objectivist.

You doesn't have to be a Michelin starred chef to complain if you get food poisoning. You don't have to be a great or even profitable trader to ask why Mr Niederhoffer has reportedly blown up twice whilst trading tens or hundreds of millions of other people's money, or query his net career P&L with his own and client funds.

It's a legitimate question why a trader as experienced as Niederhoffer seems to have blown up not just once, but a second time with the same strategy whilst running OPM. Asking that question deserves a fair response.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

this is libelous or simply total ignorance---- posted by an intelligent guy, therefore this statement designed as a question must be assumed its purpose is to disparage and cast dispersions, but that is not the topic here,,,,

your saying that institutions and professional hedge fund investors don't understand risk? seriously, how moronic can one be??

regards, surf
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Someone who loses 100% trading either doesn't understand risk, or was deliberately running that risk. Like jem said, I don't see any other possible conclusions.

If there is some other potential explanation, then by all means provide it and I'm sure people will listen carefully.
 
Quote from jem:




You really can't have it both ways.

"I am smart and sincere but I lose my clients money? "

Which is it? stupid or fraud?

I really would welcome a third choice. I do not enjoy being a cynic.
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sure you can. oh wait, i forgot, no one on elite ever loses.

the third choice is the clients paid him to take risk for outsized returns.

extremely sophisticated investors who were well aware of the risks involved--- it is indeed naive or worse to suggest otherwise.

some people/firms are invested in 100's of hedge funds, and some like to shoot for outsized gains....by taking large risk..with a portion of their capital.

risk is required for big gains, looks like most on ET simply don't understand this simple fact.

surf


ps. former friends? what on earth are you talking about....:confused:
 
Quote from nokomisjeff:

Who, specifically?

Why can't you make a living trading with a wife and 3 kids? I support 13 people with my trading, and it doesn't bother me too much? Perhaps your self doubt is too much, or you lack confidence in your abilities......
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The reason I can't make a living trading now - is that my edge faded away with the rules changes on the NYSE and the dis-integration of the NYSE market.

I was making 200 to 400 percent a year on my account. so I lived off it nicely. And it got a little bigger. When my real edge faded I was not able to generate high enough returns swing trading to live off it.

--

In the early days of ET traders on here knew me I am not about to drop old names now.
if you are really concerened send me a pm and I will send you the names.
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regarding libel. Surf you show me the libel and I will print the retraction.

I detest libel and will apologize profusely if you can point it out.
 
I bought both Crude Oil futures contracts and Gold Futures as well in 2002. When Oil hit $101 5 years later I took my profits. When Gold hit $1000 I took my profits on them too (going through big even numbers was my target and sell point).

How could I have made these profits on those two commodities without buying and holding for so many years? Is this not trend following?
 
Thanks Mike. Its great that you are a part of this forum and I have wanted to ask you a few questions in regards.

A janitor's job is one of discipline. He has to show up to work each day on time and perform a certain routine task that most people would consider mundane. They generally follow directions of "the boss". If you look at how some white collar offices are run, most do not have the discipline to show up on time or perform routine everyday tasks as they are told. Most white collar workers will also deviate from "the boss"s instructions and go on their own path thinking they can do it better. The janitor will do what you tell him to do without fail.

Drug dealing is an occupation of discipline and intelligence. In order not to get caught in any criminal enterprise requires a certain amount of skill.

In the early 80s, unemployment was so high that in any occupation there were pockets of talented people.

Im wondering how the persons with more distinguished backgrounds compared to those with less distinguished backgroudns?

Quote from Trend Following:

The Air Force grad was Erle Keefer.

Part of Dennis' selections however were not so particular as he noted Tuesday. He reminded everyone that he selected a "janitor". Mike Shannon was a drug dealer.

On the flip side, as you mention, guys like Keefer, Svoboda, Rabar, Parker, Shanks, etc. were very bright. It was an intereting mix.
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Turtles is a phoney baloney story based on the Richard pryor movie trading spaces. How stupid are you people? Marketing ploy
 
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