Requesting advice on how to stop moving my stop loss order?

[ElectricSavant]

Yeah I can set the daily loss limit. But I do not like the way I am trading. I am trying something else. This is what I am supposed to be doing while practicing ...no problem.

ES

Call your broker to see if they can implement on their back end. It will fix the issue. Daily stop loss and trade stop loss.

 

[murray t turtle]

Contact Gamblers Anonymous

Discipline cannot be gifted to you on an internet forum.

The most common way of acquiring the discipline to follow your trading plan is by having a massive losing trade. That's how I learned it.

%%
David 200
I used to gamble in pool halls; but trading is not gambling @ all.I dont consider moving a stop a problem @ all+ i've traded- invested for over 20 years. BUT i pray + plan before i get in+ stpts are NEVER moved to justify a loss; a 200 day ma moves in your favor , 20 dma or 89 dma is much less accurate, too many comissions.And market makers dont like 80 dma much. SPY pays dividends, so compare with that, wisely..............................[Edit ;sounds like your win ratio is way too high-most likely a small sample-trouble every time.Fat fingers dont matter on my spelling; wrong move on stops can kill/ES]

 

[David M21]

I regard entering the market on a short-term trade as like running into a burning building to rescue your life savings. You can come out the way you want to, the way you came in, but you'd better have a Plan B - before you rush in.

I only enter the market on orders. I always set a stop-loss attached to the entry order so I know where it will be before the position is even opened. Once in the position, I know why I entered, I understand why I put the stop where I put it and I know that if the stop price is hit, I really really want to be out. And I never move the stop further from entry.

Thanks for the input. I do exactly the same thing you do in my trade execution except that I move my stop loss. It's not my ego, or my need to be right, but I've determined that it's my fear that the market will reverse once I offset my losing position.

 

[David M21]

I frankly find either the question or the first line of your post to both be ummm less than candid.
If 85% of your trades are profitable you must be scalping. If you are scalping 4 ES point is an awfully wide stop let alone 16. Be that as it may you already know you shouldn't be moving your stop. Why do you feel something someone else says will get you to change?

Maybe hire a scolding school marm to look over your shoulder. Because moving stops on a regular basis can take you out of the game ... completely.

No. I am not scalping. I checked the long trades for this month and I'm averaging a little under 2 points per trade. At these prices, 4 points is not a wide stop. It is where my historical analysis has shown that if I get the timing off, it can still be a good trade without getting stopped out. As for why I feel something someone else says will get me to change, I was just hoping other traders have gone through this and could provide input as to how they changed. You're right that moving stops can take you out of the game.

 

[David M21]

Contact Gamblers Anonymous

Discipline cannot be gifted to you on an internet forum.

The most common way of acquiring the discipline to follow your trading plan is by having a massive losing trade. That's how I learned it.

You're right, discipline cannot be gifted to you on an internet forum. I was just hoping other traders have gone through this and could provide input as to how they fixed it. I experience a large loss 5-6 times a year from moving my stops. I still haven't learned my lesson.

 

[tomorton]

Thanks for the input. I do exactly the same thing you do in my trade execution except that I move my stop loss. It's not my ego, or my need to be right, but I've determined that it's my fear that the market will reverse once I offset my losing position.

I know its horrible when the market reverses down just when you've gone long. But which is worse, market dropping like a stone and your red numbers getting bigger and bigger or market dropping like a stone and you're in cash, waiting for the bounce?

 

[SunTrader]

There is no magic bullet ... or magic words. Just sticking with the plan.

 

[David M21]

It is simple: you have a 'need' to be right. It is your ego. You want to be right a 100% of the time and somehow it bothers you it is only 84%... So you do not want to take the loss because you want to be right. Now it is becomming a bad habit. Your trigger for the habit is starting to lose, then you have a handling of moving your stop, your reward is getting a profitable trade instead of a losing trade, your carving the next time is wanting a winning trade instead of a losing as soon you are seeing your trade is losing. The habit is created.
1) you need to do something completly els : get up and walk away for example.
2) you need to find your need to be right from something else then trading. Are you telling your self you need to make money everyday? Is someone you care about looking at you? These are the most common reason why you want to be right. Changing this is going to need work on your self and how you think.

Thanks for the input. You went into the psychology part of my problem which is what I wanted. Another member, Illini Trader, wrote to another member who had my same problem. He identified a book called "The Investment Secrets of the Swiss Bankers" and they talked about this problem and how there are 3 reasons why traders do not take a loss when they should. 1) Ego - they don't want to be wrong 2) They don't want to lose money 3) They fear the market turning and making their original position profitable after having already taken the loss. I've had a futures account since 1985. I know I'm going to make mistakes and I know I'm going to loss money. The fear that once I offset my position the market will reverse is what causes me to move my stops. All least now I have identified my problem and now I have to fix it.

 

[David M21]

It sounds to me like this 84% win rate is only because he keeps moving his stop loss. If it wasn't for the big selloff, the market might have reversed and he might have gotten out BE or with a profit, thereby reinforcing this action.

The question to ask is what would his win rate be if he always kept to his 4 point stop. Perhaps the win rate drops drastically. We all know that a 90% win rate of 1 point with a 10% chance of a 10 point stop out is not profitable. Something similar might be going on here.

That's not what's happening. Every time a position has moved against me 4 points, I have always taken a loss on the trade. Losses are part of the game. I want to learn from the loss. I just don't want to be killed from the loss. Your example is what I did many years ago. I researched a volume divergence pattern on low tick bar charts that always "seemed" to work for 1 point. I would make 3 trades in a day for 3 points and then the 4th trade I would lose 4 points. I was right 75% of the time, but I was losing money. I never trade low tick bar charts again. You will eventually get burned.

 

[David M21]

Moving a stop is not a "mistake". A mistake is going short when you meant to go long. Moving stops is a result of lack of discipline, it is poor behavior and had to be eradicated before you go broke.

You're right. Moving stops is a result of lack of discipline. I have such excellent discipline when it comes to trade entry, but poor discipline when it comes to offsetting a losing position. I always feel that after I offset the losing position, the market will reverse and go in the direction I wanted it to in the first place.