Remember when the nuts on the left laughed about death panels?

[Optional]

Quote from bigarrow:

I thought this is what the conservatives wanted, the rich live and the poor die. It's the free market way.

This is such a stupid argument.
Exactly what percentage of people is it that you think are 'RICH'?
2-3%
And how many of them are leftists?? Less than half.
So what is your stupid argument again??

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from bigarrow:

I thought this is what the conservatives wanted, the rich live and the poor die. It's the free market way.

Don't be an ass. No one said anything of the sort.

 

[AK Forty Seven]

There was death panels in America before Obamacare,people who couldn't get health ins due to pre existing conditions or those who couldn't afford it .

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from AK Forty Seven:

There was death panels in America before Obamacare,people who couldn't get health ins due to pre existing conditions or those who couldn't afford it .

And if you want to go back even further there has always been death, and even further back no health insurance of any sort.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

Don't be an ass. No one said anything of the sort.

Personally, I lean in that direction.

Health care is not a right, but rather a good. Goods cost somebody to provide. If you can't afford a good, any good, you don't get it.

It's a good public policy to provide basic medical care to all*... though still not a right... but Cadillac care should be reserved for those who can afford it.

* And if a citizen is miffed that he doesn't get Cadillac care because he's poor (and can't afford it), then he should do something about his being poor... if he can. That's the American way.

I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said, "The best thing we can do for the poor is make them uncomfortable in their poverty". That is we're not going to let people starve and freeze to death, of course, but they should be motivated to WORK to improve their lot in life.... not just expect to be given more than they deserve.

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from Eight:

It was pointed out that in Britain's socialized med system there are indeed death panels. Doctors decide where to apply their limited resources and some die as a result.

I was philosophically opposed to the Obamacare thingy. Recently I woke up and realized that it was just some more s%^t from the Medical Cartel. We have seen prices rise continually for decades, now they have pulled off the coup d'etat and gotten the Public Sector to pay for everything and/or force huge premiums on everybody.

We should stop worrying about all the silly things like incrementally creeping freedom to smoke pot and just try to dismantle the Medical Cartel. They got opium outlawed and now they control the legal supply of all the opiates. All the major pain relievers are synthetic opium and everything else is either illegal or frowned upon mightily.. That's how they roll. They take away our choices then they make their treatments mandatory very nearly. I swear, I have more respect for the Drug Cartels than the Medical Professionals who are just another Drug Cartel but hiding behind masks of respectability...

You think medical professionals decided what drugs are on the illegal dea scheduled drug list ?

I haven't met anyone in the medical profession that's supportive of obamacare, not one.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Scataphagos:

That is we're not going to let people starve and freeze to death, of course, but they should be motivated to WORK to improve their lot in life.... not just expect to be given more than they deserve.

So does a giving a little girl a lung transfer qualify for this? Or do you honestly think the Rich should live and the Poor should die, as you said you "lean towards"?

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Scataphagos:

Personally, I lean in that direction.

Health care is not a right,

That's a decision by Man, it's not "carved in stone".

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Ricter:

That's a decision by Man, it's not "carved in stone".

Still I agree with him that this country wasn't founded on the principle that everyone had a right to healthcare. However, I also believe that if we truly are an evolved society, there should be some allowance in dealing with hardship cases such as this.

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

So does a giving a little girl a lung transfer qualify for this? Or do you honestly think the Rich should live and the Poor should die, as you said you "lean towards"?

On one hand you have medical necessity and probability of survival as the only determinate.

On the other you have pure capitalism buy what you want if you can afford it.

Note that in neither extreme do the laws of economics somehow magically getting circumvented.

I contend schemes of socialism like obamacare will be the worst of both worlds. Arbitrary rules and regs designed to deny care (perhaps even despite willingness and ability to pay) plus really good care is dependent upon having the right political connections.

In light of the IRS abuses scandal Just wait until IRS controls your covered medical procedure list. wow won't that be fun.

PS: people will always die earlier from a lack of medical resources , always have always will. Myself it's patently obvious that healthcare is a service that you pay for not a right.