Religion is a hypothesis.

[OPTIONAL777]

Typical western atheistic comments, grounded in Judeo Christian concepts of good and evil, yet denies the concept of God...and like a child demands that God be understandable and fair on his own childish level...

Quote from kut2k2:

Just to play Devil's advocate D), here's what I learned when I was weaning myself off Christianity.

You have three Divine attributes:

1. God is all-powerful

2. God is all-knowing

3. God is all-good

Logically God can be any two, but not all three.

An all-powerful, all-knowing God cannot be all-good because evil is rampant in the world and he allows it.

An all-good, all-powerful God cannot be all-knowing because he can't find all the evil in the world and stop it.

An all-good, all-knowing God cannot be all-powerful because even though he knows all the evil, he cannot stop it.

One way the Church has dealt with the Problem of Evil is to claim that an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good God must allow evil in order to give humanity freedom of choice. People are free to choose good or to choose evil.

The dilemma for the Church with this rationale for Evil is that it still doesn't address the Problem of Pain. Sure, a person who rapes children has made the wrong choice and will allegedly be punished in an afterlife (nevermind the terrorized victims in this life.)

But what about all the pain and suffering caused by natural disasters? Plenty of people get hurt and killed by events that have no human agency behind them. How can an all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful God stand by and let a helpless infant get slowly crushed in a landslide?

The Church has no answers for both the Problem of Evil and the Problem of Pain.

 

[jficquette]

Quote from stu:

You did say the Creator does this, the Creator does that.
You did say the Creator is unknowable. But ok, now it is - in your opinion-, you know things about an unknowable Creator.
Little difference your explanation is the same.

Can you honestly not see how such a basic contradiction makes your explanations irrational?

I keep thinking like a human being??. Then what are you thinking like.!?
Sure Optional77ZZzzz thinks like a Troll but, are you being serious?

And what are you talking about "pure energy could by chance coalesce into the Universe as we know it."
That's not science That's not what I said nor anyone else apart from yourself.

And what on earth makes you think an atheist thinks they would be judged anyway? Why would those who don't believe fairy tales are real, be afraid that the bid bad witch from the sky is going to judge them? You may have fallen for that superstitious nonsense but I don't think the less gullible do.

I repeat, can you give any concrete reason why when arguing the Universe needed to be created, you have no logical grounds to argue why a Creator wouldn’t need to be created?
And a Creator which has always existed, begs the question then why wouldn’t the Universe have always existed.?

Can you not supply any clear, non contradictory answers to those two questions ? Even if they are only 'in your opinion'

I decided years ago that where the Creator "came from" is beyond Human comprehension and I don't worry about it any more. Its beyond comprehension because it's impossible for Humans to imagine what it would be like to be outside of time and space. I use to think about it a lot but just decided that there is some aspect of reality that unknown to us. The Flatland example is the best I can do to relate to it.

Since time is a property of the Universe I guess you can say that the Universe has always existed.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Typical western atheistic comments, grounded in Judeo Christian concepts of good and evil, yet denies the concept of God...and like a child demands that God be understandable and fair on his own childish level...

Typical sophistry from a muddleheaded believer insisting that his "incomprehensible" imaginary tyrant be worshipped and obeyed regardless of mixed messages and rampant illogic.

 

[Index piker]

Quote from kut2k2:

Just to play Devil's advocate D), here's what I learned when I was weaning myself off Christianity.

You have three Divine attributes:

1. God is all-powerful

2. God is all-knowing

3. God is all-good

Logically God can be any two, but not all three.

An all-powerful, all-knowing God cannot be all-good because evil is rampant in the world and he allows it.

An all-good, all-powerful God cannot be all-knowing because he can't find all the evil in the world and stop it.

An all-good, all-knowing God cannot be all-powerful because even though he knows all the evil, he cannot stop it.

One way the Church has dealt with the Problem of Evil is to claim that an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good God must allow evil in order to give humanity freedom of choice. People are free to choose good or to choose evil.

The dilemma for the Church with this rationale for Evil is that it still doesn't address the Problem of Pain. Sure, a person who rapes children has made the wrong choice and will allegedly be punished in an afterlife (nevermind the terrorized victims in this life.)

But what about all the pain and suffering caused by natural disasters? Plenty of people get hurt and killed by events that have no human agency behind them. How can an all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful God stand by and let a helpless infant get slowly crushed in a landslide?

The Church has no answers for both the Problem of Evil and the Problem of Pain.

All the usual ridiculously sophomoric ramblings of the confused.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from Index piker:

All the usual ridiculously sophomoric ramblings of the confused.

Another "critique" utterly devoid of content. Duly noted.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

You really are a confused intellectual...

Quote from kut2k2:

Typical sophistry from a muddleheaded believer insisting that his "incomprehensible" imaginary tyrant be worshipped and obeyed regardless of mixed messages and rampant illogic.

 

[Index piker]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

Yea, I've heard that line before. (1)It's the old, God works in mysterious ways line.(2) In other words, you don't have a clue.
(3)I will concede that I may be an unwilling participant in the game, but that doesn't sound like a loving God to me, and I refuse to believe in anything less. 4)You put a human face on God and God becomes very small and petty. Just the kind of prick that would "test" someone.5) Why is your God so small?

1) Hardly
2) I'm not the one confused.
3a) The unwillingness you cite is consciousness specific.
3b) Viewing the situation as an adversarial one is childish and immature born of ignorance.

4) Put a human face on God and you get
Jesus Christ.

5) Because your capacity to see is so limited.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Ohhhh, so you grew out of it an now believe in some big explosion and magic...

Quote from kut2k2:

Like you, I used to be gullible about the supernatural, but I grew out of it. Good luck with your own journey to enlightenment.

 

[Index piker]

Quote from kut2k2:

I'm not confused, I'm just no longer gullible about the supernatural. I used to be, but I grew out of it.

Good for you, the only way to discovery is by honest questioning.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Ohhhh, so you grew out of it an now believe in some big explosion and magic...

No, I believe in evidence. And the evidence leads where it leads, regardless of whether it is immediately comprehensible to the typical human experience. You insist on referring to the Big Bang theory as "magic" because you want to drag it down to the level of your supernatural sky fairy, the king of all magic (talking snakes, magical fruit, water into wine, yada yada yada).

It doesn't work, dude. Just because YOU don't understand something, that doesn't make it "magic." That just makes you ignorant. No crime in being ignorant unless you insist everybody else "admit" they're just as ignorant as you are. Then that makes you stupid.