Regarding the Existence or Absence of God

[Nemsy]

"People keep talking about Occam's Razor. What is it?"

William of Occam formulated a principle which has become known as Occam's Razor. In its original form, it said "Do not multiply entities unnecessarily." That is, if you can explain something without supposing the existence of some entity, then do so.

Nowadays when people refer to Occam's Razor, they often express it more generally, for example as "Take the simplest solution".

The relevance to atheism is that we can look at two possible explanations for what we see around us:

There is an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there, which came into being as a result of natural processes.
There is an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there, and there is also a God who created the universe. Clearly this God must be of non-zero complexity.
Given that both explanations fit the facts, Occam's Razor might suggest that we should take the simpler of the two -- solution number one. Unfortunately, some argue that there is a third even more simple solution:

There isn't an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there. We just imagine that there is.
This third option leads us logically towards solipsism, which many people find unacceptable.

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/arguments.html

 

[Long-Way-To-Go]

AAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh, I can't escape this thread!

>>Dude, you obviously have no idea at all how to discuss an issue.

Are ya sure? Do you know me (because I don't think we've ever met in RL)?

>>The onus is on YOU to provide evidence
>>to support such a claim

I did. Remember the lecture at Yale Univ. I quoted about using Bayes's Theorem? I'm not going any farther, because if we really get into this, we will be discussing this everyday for weeks, months or even years. For the last time, whatever questions you may have can be answered by the fine people of you local church.

>>Good luck though, cos like i've said, there isn't any.

Prove it. The lack of evidence is not evidence itself.

>>the picture becomes a lot clearer

Not really. You're clouding the issue with myths.

Guys, this is a trading forum. Let's get back to discussing trading ideas and related issues.

 

[daniel_m]

Originally posted by Long-Way-To-Go
AA
>>The onus is on YOU to provide evidence
>>to support such a claim

I did. Remember the lecture at Yale Univ. I quoted about using Bayes's Theorem? I'm not going any farther, because if we really get into this, we will be discussing this everyday for weeks, months or even years. For the last time, whatever questions you may have can be answered by the fine people of you local church.

That lecture proves absolutely nothing. the only thing it does is adds fuel to religious kooks like you, who'd happily believe what you already do with or without any rational support.

I don't really think asking the 'fine people' at your church is really going to help - what the hell would those morons know?

 

[FasterPussycat]

>>For the last time, whatever questions you may have can be answered by the fine people of you local church.


These people are sheep. Sheep don't have answers, they don't reason, their nose just follows the next butt.

 

[axeman]

Better check up on your Religious history.

Try reading "The Darkside of Christian History".
Millions have died in the hands of religion.

High correlation of bloodshed and religion in this world.

Take the holy land for example...one of the most violent
places on earth, TODAY.

Enough said.

axeman

Originally posted by Long-Way-To-Go
>>Gordon Gekko said:
>>to put it bluntly,
>>WISHFUL THINKING.

GG, I could say the exact same thing about your thoughts, but I'm not going to go that route.

I will say that the world would be a much scarier place without religion.

 

[I Missed Boat]

Originally posted by Long-Way-To-Go
>>Gordon Gekko said:
>>to put it bluntly,
>>WISHFUL THINKING.

GG, I could say the exact same thing about your thoughts, but I'm not going to go that route.

I will say that the world would be a much scarier place without religion. I shutter to think about the things I would have done in the past if I had not tried to live my life as a Christian the best I could. If I wasn't dead, I would be lying/stealing/cheating/etc everyone I could and who knows what else. The world is scary enough when I think about the number of people who don't believe in God and His Son Jesus and how they think they can live their lives like this if they want to.

Man-made laws (and the punishments received for breaking them) are great, but they cannot stop an unbeliever when their set my mind to something - in fact, I don't think any punishment on this earth is severe enough to stop an unbeliever from committing a crime when they really want to. I feel sorry for those that do not believe in hell and/or for those that think it is going to be one great big party. Our puny, little, earthly brains cannot imagine something like hell is going to be. Stop for a minute and think about the worst punishment a person could receive on earth and then magnify that by the largest number your mind can conceive and you will start to get some idea of how bad it could really be.

Crusades, Inquisition, Muslum Extremists, etc etc.


>>Someone said:
>>i am a man of reason. A man of science.
>>Not a foolish dreamer...

Guys, even the scientific community is coming around. 97% is a pretty high probability. And that is using the mathematical principles we currently have. In the future, as the mathematical field continues to improve, it will probably increase to 100% (which is where I'm currently at - eventually the scientific community will catch up). When the people who don't believe because they are waiting for scientific evidence/proof are told about this and they continue to refuse to believe, I have to think that there is another reason.

Like man-made laws, feigned ignorance and stubbornness are not defenses. One day, we will all stand before God and be held accountable.

Where did you get this alleged math result???

 

[Long-Way-To-Go]

>>daniel_m said:
>>religious kooks like you
>>what .... would those morons know

>>FasterPussycat said:
>>These people are sheep

Nice. You don't have anything to say so you revert to name-calling. How mature.

 

[Nemsy]

Originally posted by I Missed Boat


Where did you get this alleged math result???

http://www.selfknowledge.org/resources/press/nyt_eakin.htm

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~cpynes/God_Question.html
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~cpynes/God_Question_Answer.html


http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_parsons/theistic/3.html

 

[I Missed Boat]

Originally posted by darkhorse




These are great.

They nicely demonstrate what passes for logical discourse among atheists. Christians are mental midgets, snicker snicker.

You know what? I have to smile though.

You have no idea what's coming to you. And I'm talking about in this lifetime, let alone what's on the other side.

The church is currently in a state of disrepair, going through a period of weak kneed introversion and emotional based anti-intellectualism that has lasted for a century or so and is peaking right about now. This is why the only Christians you hear about these days are the ones that are easy to knock, the televangelist types and the end of the world types and that idiotic Left Behind series.

Enjoy the lull while it lasts, because it won't. Things change when the baton is passed from one generation to the next. You think you hate Christians now? Just wait until the church goes on the offensive and the intellectual roots of the church come back to the forefront. When the garbage is taken out and the new leadership takes hold, you will find yourself running into 'dumb Christians' more informed than you and smarter than you on every street corner. You will find them pushing our 'nonsense' on every television station and in every newspaper.

I don't go for all that pan reconciliation crap, because I know this is a war. It really and truly is. Christians vs atheists, Men vs monkeys, truth vs lies. We will give no quarter and take no quarter. You think one darkhorse is bad? Get ready to choke on an army of guys like me, backed with a sea of money and a sea of connections too. Get ready to be crushed. Maybe not ten years, maybe not even twenty or thirty, but believe me, it's going to happen.

I suggest you sign up for hate control classes in advance- you are gonna need them. Bad.

Darkhorse, until now I've always respected and apprecaited the enlightened conversations we've had. But now you sound like a totally different and intolerant person, as well as like a person who has a huge complex. "

I don't go for all that pan reconciliation crap, because I know this is a war." Geeeeez, you sound like a terrorist. No reconcilliation huh? This is the definition of religious intolerance. I don't have to give a history and current events lesson for any educated person to recognize what this leads to!

I still can't believe this is the same guy who offered some great thoughts on various subjects, including religion, and was so reasonable and rational. Did you develop a tumor since March/April????

 

[I Missed Boat]

Originally posted by Nemsy


http://mailer.fsu.edu/~cpynes/God_Question.html
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~cpynes/God_Question_Answer.html


http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_parsons/theistic/3.html

Clearly you are unaware that this is pseudo-intellectual nonsense. I stuided philosophy, including multiple logic classes. Also, I know some mathmaticians. These conclusions are based on premises that THEY created (unproven premises). Therefore, while the logical structure may or may not be sound (I won't even waste 1 minute examining it), the truth of the argument is wholly dependent on the truth of the unproven premises! What a joke!!