Regarding the Existence or Absence of God

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Hmmmmm, sure your reading this right?
Can you point me to the article?

This sounds like a possible analogy misread to me.

I quoted in detail and showed what was ridiculous about
that site. I would like to see the same from you.

peace

axeman



Originally posted by marketsurfer
axe,

as stated, i agree that the creationist's site has much silliness in it. however, the evolutionist's site you suggested has its share of silliness. for example--stating that an acorn turning into a tree is chaos turning into order, thus an example of the violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, is pretty stupid.

best,

surf:) :)
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I searched the site with regards to thermodynamics.

In the FAQ section it summarizes:

QUESTION: Doesn't evolution violate the second law of thermodynamics? After all, order cannot come from disorder.

ANSWER: Evolution does not violate the second law of thermodynamics. Order emerges from disorder all the time. Snowflakes form, trees grow, and embryos develop, etc. See the Second Law of Thermodynamics, Evolution, and Probability FAQ and the Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution FAQ.


I found no references to acorn/ tree stuff.

This is what the sites position is on the 2nd law of therm.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html

Maybe you could take a look and find what you saw again.
I could not locate any silliness the way you stated it.

I did a full site search and only located the word "acorn"
on it once, in an unrelated glossary.

If not... read the link posted, and tell me what part
you disagree with. I dont even know if you
think the 2nd law of therm. makes evolution impossible.
Is this your position?

Maybe a poor analogy was posted on some other
atheist site somewhere.

But thats irrelevant. The talkorigins site gives a good
explaination why the 2nd law of therm. does NOT
invalidate evolution. Some people think it does,
because they simply dont understand it.

peace

axeman


Originally posted by marketsurfer
its in the FAQ section of the site you suggested. i don't remember the url :(

best,

surf:)
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ok, i remembered a bit wrong about the "acorn" but the concept is the same---order comes out of disorder all the time--trees grow, embryos develop---how is this order coming out of disorder ??
 
I think the author is simply saying, that you can observe
order spawning from disorder all the time.

I like his snowflake example better.
Here we have a bunch of water molecules stuck together
in a blob, and when frozen slowly, we get these wonderful
"orderly" looking snowflake patterns emerging.

These are just very generalized high level examples
in the FAQ section. Your not gonna post a 20 page
description of why the 2nd law of therm. does not prevent
evoltion in a question and answer FAQ. That is why he
provides links to the full blown stuff.
If you want to critique his argument,
then you should read his full blown description under
the link I posted and comment on why you think
that is false, if you indeed do.

peace

axeman


Originally posted by marketsurfer
ok, i remembered a bit wrong about the "acorn" but the concept is the same---order comes out of disorder all the time--trees grow, embryos develop---how is this order coming out of disorder ??
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ok, i'll read the entire argument. thanks for posting the link. regardless, the examples in FAQ are weak. have you read "darwin's black box" ?? a molecular chemist's treasite on why the building blocks of matter are irreducibly complex thus would require intelligent design. in addition, on the more spiritual fringe, i would suggest "techgnosis" by erik davis. certainly not a creationist's tome, but will provide you some ideas of why i KNOW there is a creator.

take care,

surf:)
 
The examples in the FAQ may seem weak because
they are a 50,000 foot view of a complex debate.
The entire argument should be judged by reading
the detailed material, not the soundbite.


Funny you mentioned Darwins black box.

Here is another link where the author tears into the
weak arguments posed by the author of Darwins Black Box.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe/review.html


peace

axeman



Originally posted by marketsurfer
ok, i'll read the entire argument. thanks for posting the link. regardless, the examples in FAQ are weak. have you read "darwin's black box" ?? a molecular chemist's treasite on why the building blocks of matter are irreducibly complex thus would require intelligent design. in addition, on the more spiritual fringe, i would suggest "techgnosis" by erik davis. certainly not a creationist's tome, but will provide you some ideas of why i KNOW there is a creator.

take care,

surf:)
More...
 
thanks for the link to the behe argument. it makes sense to a point. you believe in evolution, i believe in intelligent design. this could go on ad-infinium so this will be my last post on the subject. peace to you and yours, axeman. may the trend be with you.

all the best,

surf:)
 
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