" The SEC said Refco Securities LLC and Refco Clearing LLC are limited for 20 business days from making transactions if the total, aggregated with other similar transactions, exceeds 30 percent of the firm's "excess net capital" during a 30-calendar-day period"
Refco Account Security
- Thread starter Htrader
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Excuse me, but I was responding to the statement that JimRockford made - - - a poster that had no problem stating last night that a theft had occured at Refco.
Perhaps you should take a few moments to read thru the ENTIRE thread, rather than just chime in from out of the blue without any regards to the tone of the posts that have been made.
Perhaps you would also label ET poster, Brandonf as someone that has an agenda and is trying to put REFCO in a favorable light due to his FACTUAL quote of the other day:
"There has never been 1 cent lost in segragated accounts. In the past the Exchange Clearing Corp has never failed to make good on its obligation."
JUST THE FACTS PEOPLE:
Maintaining assets in an FCM's custody is not
without risk. An FCM is financially
responsible for the trade obligations of its
customers.
JOHNSON & HAZEN, supra note 2, at
section 1.10.
If an FCM becomes insolvent and
cannot cover the obligations of a defaulting
customer, the FCM's non-defaulting customers
may be affected. The clearing organization has
the right to use customer assets held at the
clearing organization level to satisfy a
commodity loss on behalf of the FCM's
customers. The resulting shortfall in the
customer assets may be borne by the FCM's non-
defaulting customers. See supra note 11 and
infra note 17, and accompanying text (regarding
FCM bankruptcy provisions). To date, however,
losses of customer funds have been rare. See
Andrea M. Corcoran & Susan C. Ervin,
Maintenance of Market Strategies in Futures
Broker Insolvencies: Futures Position
Transfers From Troubled Firms, 44 WASH. & LEE
L. REV. 849, 863-64 (1987) ("customer losses
have been forestalled . . . , in significant
measure, by the voluntary contributions of
futures exchanges").
Maintaining assets in an FCM's custody is not
without risk. An FCM is financially
responsible for the trade obligations of its
customers.
JOHNSON & HAZEN, supra note 2, at
section 1.10.
If an FCM becomes insolvent and
cannot cover the obligations of a defaulting
customer, the FCM's non-defaulting customers
may be affected. The clearing organization has
the right to use customer assets held at the
clearing organization level to satisfy a
commodity loss on behalf of the FCM's
customers. The resulting shortfall in the
customer assets may be borne by the FCM's non-
defaulting customers. See supra note 11 and
infra note 17, and accompanying text (regarding
FCM bankruptcy provisions). To date, however,
losses of customer funds have been rare. See
Andrea M. Corcoran & Susan C. Ervin,
Maintenance of Market Strategies in Futures
Broker Insolvencies: Futures Position
Transfers From Troubled Firms, 44 WASH. & LEE
L. REV. 849, 863-64 (1987) ("customer losses
have been forestalled . . . , in significant
measure, by the voluntary contributions of
futures exchanges").
Is it just me or does the tone deteriorate every time we have a sell-off in the markets. 
I responded to JimRockford and JimRockford only.
If you are too lazy to read thru this person's posts and see the tone of their highly inflammatory and slanderous remarks that are not based nor substantiated in fact, than so be it.
You are not alone.
ET is full of people that are lazy and refuse to do their own DD.
Join the crowd.
Unfortunatly this discussion has turned into a very typical message board debate with 90% of the participants talking out of their asses, making grand statements and claims but not having a clue about what they are talking about. Also it's unfortunate that I really want to be short the market but I went to cash a couple days ago and now I have to just sit and wait for a rally..that leaves me without much to do but watch this soap.
But here are the facts as I see them and also some advice if anyone wants to take it.
Refco discovered on Monday that there was some hanky panky on the books. The board immediatly did the right thing with this discovery. They did not try to hide it. To me that does seem to indicate that the board and most of the excuctives are honest and want to be upfront.
That all said I am tend to believe that where there is some there could be fire. As I have been saying for the last several days the most prudent action for someone with a Refco futures account is probably to close it. Is this because you are likely to lose your money? No, in fact in the United States no one has ever lost money in a segragated account. (some one here did say in the UK they did lose money in a segragated account so I wont say its never happened anywhere) Could it become painful? Yes. It could be several months as the Exchange Clearing Corp sorts things out before you got your money back, but get it back you will. The Exchange Clearing Corp seems to be very much on top of this from everything I have read and the risk to you is minimal of losing money. My issue has been access and that is why I have said that the best thing to do is probably to close those accounts for the time being and see what happens. You only lose a day or two, not potentially months.
With regard to the FX accounts I have no idea. I took my series 3 several years ago and I can not recall a single question about it. If you have an FX account I don't know what to tell you. I have always thought Retail FX was a bit of a scam and so I have not cared to update myself on it either. If you care about your money though what you should do is get ahold of a lawyer who knows commodities law and ask him what your situation is. Dont rely on a message board.
Also for anyone who does securities business with Refco I do not know what to tell you either. I do know that people can and do lose substantial amounts of money if a Prime Broker goes under and they are not properly insured, but this isnt something I know much about so I would not like to discuss it as though I do.
But here are the facts as I see them and also some advice if anyone wants to take it.
Refco discovered on Monday that there was some hanky panky on the books. The board immediatly did the right thing with this discovery. They did not try to hide it. To me that does seem to indicate that the board and most of the excuctives are honest and want to be upfront.
That all said I am tend to believe that where there is some there could be fire. As I have been saying for the last several days the most prudent action for someone with a Refco futures account is probably to close it. Is this because you are likely to lose your money? No, in fact in the United States no one has ever lost money in a segragated account. (some one here did say in the UK they did lose money in a segragated account so I wont say its never happened anywhere) Could it become painful? Yes. It could be several months as the Exchange Clearing Corp sorts things out before you got your money back, but get it back you will. The Exchange Clearing Corp seems to be very much on top of this from everything I have read and the risk to you is minimal of losing money. My issue has been access and that is why I have said that the best thing to do is probably to close those accounts for the time being and see what happens. You only lose a day or two, not potentially months.
With regard to the FX accounts I have no idea. I took my series 3 several years ago and I can not recall a single question about it. If you have an FX account I don't know what to tell you. I have always thought Retail FX was a bit of a scam and so I have not cared to update myself on it either. If you care about your money though what you should do is get ahold of a lawyer who knows commodities law and ask him what your situation is. Dont rely on a message board.
Also for anyone who does securities business with Refco I do not know what to tell you either. I do know that people can and do lose substantial amounts of money if a Prime Broker goes under and they are not properly insured, but this isnt something I know much about so I would not like to discuss it as though I do.
or cover it up by shifting it to enron-esque company
Seriously though - isn't that the original issue here? Wasn't the 450MM tied to customer losses? If so (and not just rumor), then it would seem that the customer segragated funds are directly in danger, as wouldn't/couldn't those funds be legally used to cover the debt?
Quote from jason_l:
or cover it up by shifting it to enron-esque company
Seriously though - isn't that the original issue here? Wasn't the 450MM tied to customer losses? If so (and not just rumor), then it would seem that the customer segragated funds are directly in danger, as wouldn't/couldn't those funds be legally used to cover the debt?
What debt?
The $430 million dollar "receivable" was repaid, with interest.
Furthermore, I believe that the $430 million dollar "receivable" occured in the Refco Capital Markets side of Refco Holdings Inc., and not Refco LLC., which conducts futures transactions in segregated accounts.
The monies held in segregated accounts are monitored on a daily basis by the regulators.
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