Reality based coin-tosser method that beats 95% of traders in the world.

Quote from Whisky:



snip....

1-Diminished overall risk over the original method. (In the case of L=S we arrive to the trivial solution, which we know outperforms the original method, as well as 95% of traders in the world).

2-We diminished somehow the impact of commissions and slippage by bucketing buy and sell orders. (In the case of L=S we have cut the costs to zero for that day).

3-If we force the L=S trivial solution, then we do not need the coin tosser anymore, and neither an entry algo.

Basically, in the case of 3-we have one account entering in the direction of the coin-toss and one in the opposite direction, effectively canceling each other and saving commissions. One could argue that this is exactly the same as the trivial solution, and yes it is...unless we start modifying the EXITS.

So, as food for thought we can start thinking about:

a-How can we increase our edge by exiting long positions and short positions better than at 16:15 on next day close?. Can we use any new information that becomes available DURING the day?.

This question addresses how and why trading works during RTH and non RTH. In each period trading works from the same foundation BUT the market behavior is different because of the degree of liquidity.

b-How can we create a more intelligent position manager for the bull and bear accounts?. (Notice that as corollary, the difference between L and S becomes a market direction bias indicator, which could go from MAX long to MAX short in position).

Discovering that market HAVE sentiment is the first discovery. Here is the question that addresses its measurement and how strong it is. The first indicators invented addressed these questions. How could history have turned out any other way. those who do not study or know history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

History has taught mankind that science and reason exist. One Kroner saver decided to give prizes in five categories for those who do good science and reasoning. Today all day long prizes are handed out. here we have a child 8 years old flipping coins and winning 2 out of three times through inductive reasoning. We know the child does it under 40 times a day.

The child is going max long or max short (using profits to compound as well). The child is doing John Netto's "One Shot One Kill". Don't miss John at the Expo.


I believe some people may see this better if they think about two games being played simultaneously: The LONG game, and the SHORT game. Like Football perhaps?. Both games can be won everyday in hindsight. Can we bring some of that hindsight to foresight?. Only a relatively small improvement can yield enormous results if it can be compounded over time.

Good compounding profits has entered the picture. It is an incentive to use the KNOWN market sentiment to do trades. we can also use it to determine the timing of switching sides. Induction reasons that there are two games being played. Deduction reasons that there are seven nested observable games and, faster than that, there are several others all the way down to the granularity of within the OTR chart which is set by market operating characterisitcs. A tick is the smallest granulaity BUT then residence time and DOM is the name of the game.

At 50 contracts a tick is worth 625 dollars. At 100 contracts it is worth 1250 bucks.
 
Quote from david666:

No no, why dont you prove it DOESNT bring in at least one extra tic per day? Why dont you backtest all of these suggestions, come back and tell us what increased your expectancy?

Your request for fairness is not on the table. The OP has pointed out that fairness is not being moderated. In dealing with the bottom line in trading, there is a lot of rationality lacking.

My 8 year old is trading and is winning on 2 out of 3 trades. The OP will not be able to process this nor understand that the wins are larger than the losses at this time. Later, after a few levels of added sophistication, this thread may end like a sponsor's thread ends.

There is a possibility that, as the proofs are offered, that the prooofs will pass over the heads of the possible readers.
 
I've been following this thread since the beginning and it now appears we have a winner...

Quote from dtrader98:

Of course you can. If you ever take the time to empirically study simple probabilities, you would realize the market is a bent coin (from a binary perspective). Predict heads every day and you will beat a fair coin.

Big problem that no one seems to notice is that markets returns are not binary to begin with. Therefore, you are starting out with a poor analogy to begin with.

Which would you prefer?
99 winning Coin tosses and one loss that netted 1 dollar?
or
99 losing coin tosses and one win that netted 10 dollars?

Before you waste any more time on the thread concept, I suggest you all think a bit about this perplexity, because it will hopefully give you a bit of enlightenment.
 
Quote from david666:

now, time to get serious.

Here is the problem, the market is not 50/50 as a coin flip is. The fact is there is a small edge towards closing higher than the open on any given day. This means there are more up days than down days meaning your coin flip is not a good representation.

In fact, you would be better off going long at the market open everyday than using just a coin flip.

My suggestion, look at the prior day action, calculate the percentage from the open to the close. Calculate the average percentage for the past 1000 days. If the day in question has a higher percentage than the threshold, take opposite direction trade.

Lets say you get beyond tabbing up and down days and begin to deal with "how much and do weighting. When you do you find out two things: the opposite is true and you find out that during non RTH's is when you say what you said is true (on a weighted basis).

You can accept of reject my corrections to your expression; that is your choice.

If being right is more important a person tends to learn in one direction. If being most profitable is more important, a person keeps an open mind to things that are new to him.

the result of processing information is that a person's minds grows. The tendancy in the mind's growing is towards being wiser. The tendancy for some people is to get stuck mentally there is one reason why this happens: they make poor unreasoned choices.

Intuition is not what makes a trader better; differentiation is what makes a trader better.

Here so far, we gotten to the beginning of examining market sentiment. If a person can discover the market snetiment varies, fractal by fractal, he gets further into becoming differentiated and sensitive to what the market does as it operates.

At some point (see Acurary's great thread on his reversal of thinking) it may be possible for a person to examine things logically instead of statisitically (See mandelbrotset's references in this thread for barking up the wrong tree). this is a cardinal choice.

Is market sentiment on any given fractal determined statisitcally or logically.

The 8 year old game is using logic. The child reverses on troughs and 2 out of 3 times the child wins by fipping a 50 -50 coin.

By paying the OP's required topic, we had to flip coins to begin. Next we found out one trade a ay omitted four impotant factors. Now he sees two football games, called long and short, being played concurrantly. he now sees just one level of market sentiment swinging incrementally back and forth through his induction.

One could look at the sum of this and include your thinking and find out that just beginning to "see" the market s difficult.

Redneck says a self constructed mantra to begin each day. Why? As he explains, his mind is doing things he wants to avoid. He know he needs to see what is going on but his normal thoughts preclude this and he has to shut them down if he can.

I will be stoppng the 8 year old to stop flipping coins and begin to think about just what the market is "telling" her, all based on deduction done by someone other than she. she is jst learning to trade to compound 50 cent pieces to have enough money to go to college.
 
Quote from dtrader98:

Of course you can. If you ever take the time to empirically study simple probabilities, you would realize the market is a bent coin (from a binary perspective). Predict heads every day and you will beat a fair coin.

Big problem that no one seems to notice is that markets returns are not binary to begin with. Therefore, you are starting out with a poor analogy to begin with.

Which would you prefer?
99 winning Coin tosses and one loss that netted 1 dollar?
or
99 losing coin tosses and one win that netted 10 dollars?

Before you waste any more time on the thread concept, I suggest you all think a bit about this perplexity, because it will hopefully give you a bit of enlightenment.

This is the nut to crack.

Empircal is the inductive route and the binary principle is incompatible with empiricism. Two ideas come ito a space and clash.

Tradezones says lets do more empiricism using standard measures and see who is best or wrong. He is up to 3 ,000 such tests. So far about 1% pass his test. He has proven top my satisfaction, statistically speaking, that empiricism doesn't work.

By using deduction and a binary principled system (PVT), the common Sharpe ratio exceeds 60 (as determined by Worden Bros staff using their logic Blox on years of subprime data.) The Sharpe ratio of 60 is at one end of Traderzone's distribution.

Any stat test will show a very strong corrolation of sentiment and the binary principle. Since it does, maybe sentiment is a possibility for successful trading. Joe Ross feels that there is no sentiment 85 percent of the time. The football argument is out of bounds for Joe Ross. The reason Joe screws this up is because he feels as does the OP that only two games are being played.

The 8 year old uses three games meaning the child trades on the fastest observable fractal and has one fractal slower and one fractal faster for guidance. The slower one shows the sentiment binary context and the faster shows the child how to carve the volume trough turns.


Soon the 8 year old game will drop coin flipping and begin to use three adjacent fractals to take all the profit segments on the middle fractal, meaning 20 to 40 profit segments a day. 40 ticks of profit will be given up in this process. We will start more slowly to get in the groove (12 to 15 trades a day).

Deduction does away with intuition, guessing the future, setting stops and setting targets. The reason why is that 8 year olds don't do this stuff if it is not needed. So the proofs for each of these four things not being needed will be done. Giving proofs of each item is how a deductive system is grown.

As of now, everyone can carryover from Friday to the open the BBT, tape, traverse and Channel status. This provides four sentiment levels all expressed deductively and with 100% certainty and in a binary manner regardless of Joe Ross and those that think inductively.

What this means is that the 8 year old child knows the next four trades she/he will do to complete the briefest pattern of P, V movement observable. Knowing the next four trades means all that is left is timing them to extract the whole segment of profits. The child will replace the flipping and just do two types of timing instead of one type of timing.

Timing means doing an exit followed immediately by an entry on the opposite side. This is a reversal trade.

For those that wish to look at the way it works, consult the four calls I made in advance before an open and consult the print of an open that shows the timing of such typical calls. Look at the volume annotations (troughs and the new volume tool of the 8 year old (peaks)) to see how the timing works down to the one tick level charts posted previously.

I still have to post the step by step instructions for doing the exits and entries. So far it involves three steps in sequence and only using troughs. When risk (coin flipping) is eliminated, just rules are used. In trading one of the goals is risk elimination. The tool for risk elimination is knowing the sentiment in the present. Sentiment is determined deductively using nested fractals. This is counterintuitive to CW types of trading.

I will do this as soon as the OP eliminates coin flipping or random data sets from his initial scheme.
 
Quote from jack hershey:

As you know I have sevral programming adjuncts to the ET server system. One is my early detection of posts related to me. As has happened I post reponses to them (Magna and Don Bright for example) even though they have been deleted.

I also can select a member who has me on ignore and remove the ignore status if something in my automated profile of him has a corrolation of greater than 83.78% to four significant figures. I do this when a post I make is pertinent to his profile. I checked my correlation log which has little activity in third quarter reporting periods. My hacking appearatus, mistakenly removed me from your ignore list; I am back on ignore on your list.

Sorry.


I have to agree with the OP -- I don't understand a word you're saying
 
Quote from Random.Capital:

... Now can we get the thread back to where it was going before? I'm interested in seeing where Whiskey and 'Brot are take this ...
Thanks for in the input, RC.

Studying binominal distributions and their patterns are key to understanding how the market operates and ultimately are important for being able to take your trading beyond the 50/50 level, which is what Whiskey is trying to demonstrate here.
***
But as we can see, jack hershey is derailing yet another great thread with his absolute nonsense, and the only thing missing are the attendant ass fairy's who prompt him with idiotic question after moronic query to keep posting his bullshit, so I'm way past done with this thread.

Good trading to you in the coming week ... I can assure you, neither jack hershey nor any of his <strike>minions</strike> shit eating ass fairy's will be.
 
Quote from jack hershey:

That was 120% humor. By happenstance, a few times, I did see posts that got deleted. when I responded unexpectedly it was humorous to all concerned.

ET is a funny place. Here you see the OCD contingent keeping some kinds of moderators busy. Other moderators let these detractions remain.

I have had whole threads (started by others) deleted when moderators didn't feel the contributions outweighted selective deletions.

I made the tongue in check post just for comic relief.

I am on the deductive side of the argument. CW and the financial industry take the inductive side as a management position based on churning sales and commissions. This will never end.

What I like about my argu,emt is that is weed people away from ,e who want to make money as their singular opjective. Kere in this thread you get to see a moderator tell me I am full of shit and tell you he can trade and make mopney trading the way he is being mentored by someone he judges to be an expert. This is top drawer humor and of the 100's of people I have met like him, very few survive their persojnal irrationality to learn to trade.

My perspective, and those who trade with me, is that we enjoy ET as it is priceless.

Think about one of my phone calls. A guy just read a backtest on PVT, done worng and he lust had his first 100,000 day. Ir is a very funny place to be while at either end of that phone call. In vegas we have a fully booked, at cpacity day coming up. I won't be wearing a pin wheel cap and I will be wearing Tony Lama boots. All the participants can wear what they wish.

When a person breaks 1,000 a day trading on profits only I am just as glad to get the PM on that. Here, I have an 8 year old beginning to trade and stop flipping coins. A lot of people are smiling and see the humor of the deductive logic that gives a child such an "edge" by only trading dominant price moves.

Keep smiling.

I have a small issue with your claims: Last time I checked the Forbes 400, your name wasn't on the list. Care to clarify this small issue?. I'd like to clarify that before I embark in learning a new language.

Can anyone translate and summarize what you attempt to communicate?. I mean a chart, a picture, an english sentence, a Feynman Diagram. Something intelligible for God's sake!.
 
Quote from Whisky:

Can anyone translate and summarize what you attempt to communicate?. I mean a chart, a picture, an english sentence, a Feynman Diagram. Something intelligible for God's sake!.

...
 

Attachments

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

Thank you, thank you, thank you! :p :p :p

You're welcome.

The OP asked a fair question and I responded. It was a nice day of trading (for me). I posted some commentary as the day unfolded on another site. Folks see things differently. You call it "trading porn". I would classify it (by # of trades and % of ATR) as intermediate level SCT trading. Nowhere near the expert level which Jack speaks of.

Long day at the cider mill with the family. All the fresh air was good but has me sleepy this evening.

Good trading to you and have a nice evening.
 
Back
Top