I'm not cheered by the realization that your remarks in jest are a little too close to an accurate description of the attitude of roughly 20% of the U.S. population. This must be a social/political phenomenon as there seems no logical scientific explanation for this bizarre attitude.
Rand Paul - Masks are all about Submission not Science
- Thread starter jem
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Your conclusion is correct imo. Did you read the article I linked some time ago, Trumpism is an aesthetic not an ideology?
Apparently not, unless the numbers of new infections being reported are fabricated. The idea of herd immunity is crazy because at best you wipe out most of a species before it's achieved because the offspring of the immune won't be immune. At worst you wipe out the entire species and never achieve it. To suggest that this is a good way to go about attacking a deadly pathogen is quack science.
I'm not terribly concerned about the report of a new strain as hopefully the amino acid sequence and folding at the antibody binding site in the virus spike protein will be unaffected, in which case the current vaccine should remain effective with the new strain as well. Even if the new strain involves a mutation in the spike protein that would render the present vaccine ineffective, our experience in developing the present vaccine would probably allow development of an effective vaccine for the new strain at what could be described as light speed in comparison with the time it used to take to develop new vaccines.
No. But I want to go back and find it. I want to read that.
Do you see how full of shit you are?
We have a real study from Demark with a 3000 person control and 3000 person who wore masks...
and the numbers who got infected were so similar that the difference was not statistically distinguishable.
So you critique that study.. and say not enough proof of compliance.
But motherfucker its a real study and its large.
So then lets take a look are your full of shit statement.
You don't even have real study to critique...
Its just flat out of your ass.
Be a scientist apply consistent anaylsis.
Stop being a drone.
b.
Taiwan and South Korea are islands. They locked down fast... that worked at first.
Now cases are exploding in South Korea...
Last week you put Japan in that Category... till cases exploded there.
We have a real study from Demark with a 3000 person control and 3000 person who wore masks...
and the numbers who got infected were so similar that the difference was not statistically distinguishable.
So you critique that study.. and say not enough proof of compliance.
But motherfucker its a real study and its large.
So then lets take a look are your full of shit statement.
You don't even have real study to critique...
Its just flat out of your ass.
Be a scientist apply consistent anaylsis.
Stop being a drone.
b.
Taiwan and South Korea are islands. They locked down fast... that worked at first.
Now cases are exploding in South Korea...
Last week you put Japan in that Category... till cases exploded there.
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It's clear that you can read media headlines just fine. The media headlines report in superlatives, but they don't respect relative measures.
South Korea is not an "Island". A recent spike in cases is ~200 more than its March peak. It has 16 times the population density of the United States. It has a tiny, tiny fraction of the Covid deaths compared with the U.S., and roughly one sixth the number of infections. South Korea's numbers are likely accurate as they have consistent reporting throughout the country. No one knows what the real numbers are for the U.S. since they have been politically tampered with, but we know they are higher, not lower, than the reported.
I am familiar with the Denmark study you mentioned. In that study, compliance was relatively poor compared with compliance in say South Korea or Taiwan. The results in Denmark are again more evidence for the relationship of mask wearing effectiveness to both the infection rate existing at the time masks are adopted and the extent of compliance. In the Denmark study no conclusion was possible. I quote from the study below:
The most important limitation is that the findings are inconclusive, with CIs compatible with a 46% decrease to a 23% increase in infection.
...the findings were inconclusive and cannot definitively exclude a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection of mask wearers in such a setting. It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in settings where social distancing and other public health measures are not in effect.Reduction in release of virus from infected persons into the environment may be the mechanism for mitigation of transmission in communities where mask use is common or mandated, as noted in observational studies. Thus, these findings do not provide data on the effectiveness of widespread mask wearing in the community in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections. They do, however, offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect.
...the findings were inconclusive and cannot definitively exclude a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection of mask wearers in such a setting. It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in settings where social distancing and other public health measures are not in effect.Reduction in release of virus from infected persons into the environment may be the mechanism for mitigation of transmission in communities where mask use is common or mandated, as noted in observational studies. Thus, these findings do not provide data on the effectiveness of widespread mask wearing in the community in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections. They do, however, offer evidence about the degree of protection mask wearers can anticipate in a setting where others are not wearing masks and where other public health measures, including social distancing, are in effect.
I will summarize again a most important point that I have made in this thread that everyone should take note of and that is that ...
as the incidence of carriers in a population increases the probability of becoming infected while wearing a mask approaches that of the probability of becoming infected while not wearing a mask.
Ask any epidemiologist you know. They will emphasis the importance of very early, consistent and universal adoption of protective measures.
Do not interpret this however as suggesting that once a pandemic is underway these protective measure are of no value.
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Very interesting article. Thanks for mentioning it. Though I have trouble picturing Trump himself as an Aesthete I have much less Trouble with the idea of Trumpism as an aesthetic. The thought is somewhat disturbing. The author has used "aesthetic" in a way I would never have thought to, but now I see it's quite appropriate. Just as the "fine arts" are made fine by divorce from functionality, a virtuous trait, I see now how one can see the same divorce in Trumpism which can be celebrated by some as its own thing, though definitely not a virtuous thing I would say.
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South Korea is a peninsula and below North korea...as I said earlier...that makes it an island for our analysis.
2. The rest of your argument is a logical fallicy of appealing to amorphous "experts" and a cute piece of sophistry.
How is this...
As more people around you are sick the likelihood of you getting sick increases whether wearing a mask or not. Particularly, because the studies we have show that even people claiming 100 percent mask wearing get sick at the same rate as those who don't wear masks.
By the way, I believe in distancing, hand washing and most importantly sufficient Vitamin D.
2. The rest of your argument is a logical fallicy of appealing to amorphous "experts" and a cute piece of sophistry.
How is this...
As more people around you are sick the likelihood of you getting sick increases whether wearing a mask or not. Particularly, because the studies we have show that even people claiming 100 percent mask wearing get sick at the same rate as those who don't wear masks.
By the way, I believe in distancing, hand washing and most importantly sufficient Vitamin D.
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You want to take all the reasonable measures you can to avoid catching Covid, including properly wearing PPE. The following article is written by someone who is 51 years old, describes himself as healthy, but with a mild to moderate form of asthma, who describes his battle Covid in detail. Perhaps Tony Stark will chime in and compare his Covid experience with the author’s.
A lot of folks are out there saying that COVID is a myth, that viruses don’t exist (wth?), or that the whole pandemic has been a scam. While I strongly disagree with the lockdowns and restrictions on our ability to make a living, there truly is a pretty bad virus out there. And I know this from personal experience.
I had Covid and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. It was brutal and I had what would be considered a “moderate” case. This article isn’t meant to be used as medical advice or political fodder. This isn’t a treatise about a magical cure being kept secret by Big Pharma nor is it about the Deep State, some villain who cooked up a bioweapon, or any other theory du jour. My medical and treatment choices may be different than yours. I’m simply relating my experiences.
This virus hits people very differently. If you were fortunate enough to have a mild case, don’t disregard your next door neighbor who ends up with permanent organ damage. Some people are asymptomatic, some have minor symptoms, some are moderately ill, and some die. This is definitely not “just the flu” for many people. I never had a case of influenza that took me down like this, particularly not for this length of time.
I don’t think that there is a “typical” case of Covid because there are so many variables.
The only thing notable about the week before I began to have symptoms was an insatiable thirst. This hasn’t been mentioned in any of the literature that I’ve read but anecdotally, several other people I spoke with who had a case lasting a few weeks agreed that they’d never had a thirst quite like it.
I generally drink 4 liters of water per day. I was up to 6 liters a day (that’s a gallon and a half of water!) as well as electrolyte beverages and still I felt parched. I was waking up in the middle of the night and guzzling a water bottle. It was a little weird but I didn’t think too much of the sudden dehydration.
How it started
First of all, to answer the inevitable question, I have no idea how I got Covid. I work from home. I have been following the local rules and staying on my property aside from trips to the grocery store. I haven’t been to any gatherings, I wear a mask as required by regulations in the city where I’m staying, and I wash my hands at the appropriate times.
Science Daily reports that coronavirus infections can cause delirium and Medscape suggests that depression and anxiety in Covid patients could be indicators of the virus attacking the patient’s central nervous system.
Some of the causes of mood swings during Covid could be biological and related to the illness itself, but there’s also another factor.
People treat you very differently when you have this illness. The media-propelled fear justifying the lockdowns are every bit as infectious as the virus. You’re like a pariah. A leper. People you know wouldn’t even consider coming near you. I have a kindly neighbor who has dropped off supplies at the door for me, but aside from that, people locally who have done work for me in the past are hesitant to pick up my groceries or handle small errands.
Even some people who are long-distance friends who I talk to online on a daily basis completely disappeared. Some of them were so adamant that Covid is a “scamdemic” they didn’t want to hear about my experience. I didn’t expect emotional fallout from having Covid, but it was present, particularly as it seemed to go on and on. Two weeks feels like a really long time to be sick.
I didn’t have the energy to make food so I just ate some fruit that was in the refrigerator, followed by saltines. I drank water, took my drugs, and went to bed early to sleep it off.
Day 15: My oxygen levels were finally stabilizing a little bit. Today was to have been my last visit to the doctor but they asked me to return one more day because of the new medications for my lungs. The constant feeling of shortness of breath was still present, but the bronchial spasms had subsided.
Johns Hopkins reports that Covid can seriously damage the lungs of survivors.
COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus, can cause lung complications such as pneumonia and, in the most severe cases, acute respiratory distress syndrome, or ARDS. Sepsis, another possible complication of COVID-19, can also cause lasting harm to the lungs and other organs. (source)
This damage can be reversed with diligent effort and in severe cases, respiratory therapy may be required.
After a serious case of COVID-19, a patient’s lungs can recover, but not overnight. “Recovery from lung damage takes time,” Galiatsatos says. “There’s the initial injury to the lungs, followed by scarring. Over time, the tissue heals, but it can take three months to a year or more for a person’s lung function to return to pre-COVID-19 levels.”
He notes that doctors and patients alike should be prepared for continuing treatment and therapy.
“Once the pandemic is over, there will be a group of patients with new health needs: the survivors. Doctors, respiratory therapists and other health care providers will need to help these patients recover their lung function as much as possible.” (source)
I began to take my dogs on short walks today. Normally we move briskly, we run around at the park, we hike down to the water, and we climb back up. I am definitely not able to do that at this point, not unless I want another repeat of the recent asthma attack. So we began today taking short, slow walks. The dogs are overjoyed to be out of the condo, and frankly, so am I.
We managed to walk 1.28 miles over a period of 3 walks today. It took forever because unless I want to be gasping for air, I had to move slowly, taking a moment to rest on the inclines.
It felt so strange and so unlike me to walk at this snail’s pace. I felt like I was walking with someone’s elderly grandmother, but it was me – I was the “elderly” person. But it seems the important thing is the movement.
Doctors don’t yet know how long it will take patients to regain their pre-Covid strength and endurance. In the case of acute respiratory distress syndrome or ARDS, which has been caused by other viruses and has similarities to Covid-19, full recovery can take over a year, but there are no such statistics for Covid yet.
However, the earlier patients start their rehabilitation, the faster they begin to bounce back, which may be another reason for doctors to take them off ventilators sooner, Ms. Al Chikhanie said. That may be possible, especially as scientists understand how to manage the acute infection phase better. (source)
Day 16: On Day 16 the line at the clinic was long again, and I opted not to wait for a recheck. I felt better able to catch my breath and less tired, although I still needed a nap in the middle of the day. Miles walked: 1.5. I walked slowly, trying not to get overly winded.
My cough was far less frequent and not as deep when I did cough. I still didn’t really have my appetite back. I could taste food but it didn’t really taste good or flavorful.
Day 17: I finally woke up feeling almost normal. I awoke at 6:30, my usual time, without an alarm clock. I took the dogs out, grabbed some coffee, and got a bit of work done before my appointment.
I got into the doctor earlier and was the first patient in. He looked at me and said, “You are feeling much better, I can see it.”
All my stats checked out normally and I was released from Covid and pneumonia care. I am not under any kind of quarantine because of how long it had been since my symptoms began and since I’d run a fever. I have no other follow-up visits scheduled unless I run into complications.
While I no longer have Covid, the doctor said that it will take a while before my lung capacity is where it was before I became sick. He warned that post-Covid can be dangerous because I would be susceptible to other upper respiratory infections during this healing stage and to keep up with the high dose Vitamin C, D, and Zinc. I was to continue walking but not push myself to the point of getting winded for a couple of weeks to give my lungs more time to heal. My sense of taste has not fully returned.
I still have to take a bronchodilator for another week, as well as an inhaler that compares to Symbicort in the US twice a day for the next 3 weeks.
Opinions
My treatment in Mexico – complete with 7 doctor’s visits, prescription medications, and supplements – cost well under $300. Because I happened to be here when I got sick, I don’t have to come up with thousands of dollars or become buried in debt to pay for my healthcare.I was fortunate. Despite all the talk about how Covid medical care and testing are covered by the government in the United States, many people are still facing enormous bills because it’s just not working out that way. People are getting bills they shouldn’t be getting and not being told the charges are covered. Others are discovering that not everything they were told would be covered, is.
I think that as awful as this illness is, there are other concerns that are falling through the cracks while all attention is focused on this one ailment. As a nation, our economy is suffering, our mental health is suffering, and our physical health is deteriorating as we lock ourselves away from others at the behest of the government and as care for other conditions remains nearly impossible to access.
There are a million opinions on this virus, the treatment thereof, the medical system, government restrictions, and other Covid-related minutae. I sincerely believe we as individuals should have choices about the medical treatment we do or do not receive and how we choose to protect ourselves. We should have both the right and responsibility to make these decisions.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/...the+survival+rate+for+everyone+drops+to+zero)
My neighbors both are recovering from COVID and the poor woman cannot talk for long becuase she still has trouble breathing and cannot catch her breath. Husband was in hospital for 9 days and barely escaped going on respirator.
My freind and his wife who live nearby had it bad for a week or so and are fine now but still are completely wiped out most days and are slow to get their energy back. Hunsabd started working out again and has to use the inhaler the doctor prescribed at tiems because he has trouble catching his breath.
"You don't want to get this" was what he told me.
Shit is real, does not matter if it does not kill you, it can knock you out and still required hospitalization. Imagine if it spreads like wildfire in a community who shrugs it off or does not care....
My freind and his wife who live nearby had it bad for a week or so and are fine now but still are completely wiped out most days and are slow to get their energy back. Hunsabd started working out again and has to use the inhaler the doctor prescribed at tiems because he has trouble catching his breath.
"You don't want to get this" was what he told me.
Shit is real, does not matter if it does not kill you, it can knock you out and still required hospitalization. Imagine if it spreads like wildfire in a community who shrugs it off or does not care....