Ramblings on emotions and trading ...

austinp · Oct 10, 2006

"ok, my heart beat is over 100, I'm feeling super stressed, and I have a knot in my stomach. I'm thinking about them but they seem to be kicking me right now. I want to feel relaxed and a disengaged observer. How do I get to the point where they weaken?"

Stop holding an emotional handgun to your head on every trade. Trust that your method approach will continue to enjoy a positive expectancy of performance. Do not assign greater emotional attachment to the current trade than you do the next one to follow. Detach yourself from this trade's outcome as being any more significant than the previous or next 100 trades' outcome.

gutsytrader · Oct 10, 2006

Quote from austinp:

[B
Stop holding an emotional handgun to your head on every trade. Trust that your method approach will continue to enjoy a positive expectancy of performance. Do not assign greater emotional attachment to the current trade than you do the next one to follow. Detach yourself from this trade's outcome as being any more significant than the previous or next 100 trades' outcome. [/B]

I'd love to. How? I'm not willing my heart to go nuts. Deep breathing is making my head light. The position size is insignificant so it can't be fear. At least I don't think it is.

austinp · Oct 10, 2006

""ok, my heart beat is over 100, I'm feeling super stressed, and I have a knot in my stomach."

Gutsy, those feelings are a physical response to some inner emotion. If not based on fear, then what?

Sounds like a borderline panic attack to me. In your opinion, what could cause such inner turmoil on an "insignificant trade" for you?

Optionpro007 · Oct 10, 2006

smoke a doobie and "fogget bout it".

Quote from gutsytrader:

ok, my heart beat is over 100, I'm feeling super stressed, and I have a knot in my stomach. I'm thinking about them but they seem to be kicking me right now. I want to feel relaxed and a disengaged observer. How do I get to the point where they weaken?

austinp · Oct 10, 2006

I'm not an advocate of chemicals, but I do have some long-time acquaintances that grow their own high-grade indica strains here in the bottom lands of western NY state.

These guys are totally stressed out and panic ridden while helicopters fly in September or cool weather threatens heavy fungus & mold. Once their harvest is safely in, they go from anxiety attack to one shade away from comatose by the third hit. Quite a dichotomy of emotional states, on both ends of the spectrum.

I'll stick with diet Coke for the stimulant and correct position size for the detachment of individual trade results, but to each their own toke(n) of self management.

gutsytrader · Oct 10, 2006

Quote from austinp:

""ok, my heart beat is over 100, I'm feeling super stressed, and I have a knot in my stomach."

Gutsy, those feelings are a physical response to some inner emotion. If not based on fear, then what?

Sounds like a borderline panic attack to me. In your opinion, what could cause such inner turmoil on an "insignificant trade" for you?

I don't know. I checked my pulse before putting on the trade and it was 65. 10 minutes into the trade it was 128. Only way I've found so far to cut the stress is to put on a stop and walk away for 20 min. Unfortunately my method requires I stay in and watch carefully. I'll check the web for self assessment material. I bailed on the trade because I couldn't handle the stress. I guess I need a shrink to figure this out. Sure is pissing me off, though. And of course now that I'm out it's taking off. lol

fearless9 · Oct 10, 2006

Quote from gutsytrader:

I'd love to. How? I'm not willing my heart to go nuts. Deep breathing is making my head light. The position size is insignificant so it can't be fear. At least I don't think it is.

That is good old fashioned fear, but totally out of contex to the situation that spawned it and therefore damaging to you.
Healthly fear is when you out run your mate whom you have never ever beaten before, but today you are both being chased by a hungry tiger.

In all seriousness, you need to re programe your reality senses. Sounds like you have taken onboard all the fear messaging that surrounds you constantly.

Lamont_C · Oct 10, 2006

Quote from gutsytrader:

I'd love to. How? I'm not willing my heart to go nuts. Deep breathing is making my head light. The position size is insignificant so it can't be fear. At least I don't think it is.

A large part of it may be that you're trading somebody else's system. And using 7 charts to make your decisions isn't going to alleviate your anxiety.

How many times a day do you ask yourself "What would HE do?"

Maverick1 · Oct 10, 2006

Quote from gutsytrader:

I'd love to. How? I'm not willing my heart to go nuts. Deep breathing is making my head light. The position size is insignificant so it can't be fear. At least I don't think it is.

Gusty

If it's not fear then it's an emotion that I've never heard of before. From a few of your posts I get the impression that your trading has only a few vague rules/guidelines that your mentor taught you. That's great but more than likely insufficient to give you the confidence to trade consistently.

You need a backtested approach whose rules are robust enough to act as the bedrock upon which you will grow your confidence. If you internally or unconsciously don't feel at 100% peace with the rules, you won't make it. You need to feel super comfortable with everything before you start. For ex, not taking shorts above the high of the day is an excellent logical rule, because we know that there's a horde of trend following systems just waiting to pounce on that. But you have to go deep beyond that, what's my MAE, MFE? More importantly are my entries similar so I can even compare apples with apples? It's a LOT of work and takes time I'm afraid. But once you know it down cold, you will 'own' it and not even blink once when executing.

Look fear in the eye, and make IT blink.

austinp · Oct 10, 2006

gutsy, please permit me to take a stab in the dark here. You are under a lot of self-induced performance anxiety. You need to succeed in trading, you have a deadline and you have firm monetary objectives to target.

That type of internal pressure is imprinted on your subconscious. It works behind the scenes, driving your emotions regardless of what tricks you try to play in the conscious realm.

In other words, your feelings are firmly attached to this trade and its result, because you feel like your whole future depends on its success. You've given yourself very little margin for error, on a subconscious basis.

You already decided when and by how much you need to be profitable. Your subconscious mind is managing your emotions for you... exactly as instructed. Your internal fight/flight adrenal response is functioning perfectly.

The problem is, you have yourself on subconscious standby for disaster. Everything is riding on your trading success, aka each trade's success.

Remove the burden of that subconscious anvil hanging over you, and everything will become easier. There is no way to override your subconscious mind with conscious thoughts... that only leads to inner conflict and further turmoil.

I cannot offer you a solution, because your individual situation is different than anyone else. We can identify the problem, and it lies squarely upon performance anxiety due to must-do deadlines and objectives you set for yourself.

Hope this helps
Austin