Raising Kids: Torn between Religion and Science

[jem]

This is what I meant when I said children love Socratic style interaction.
You should hear some of the answers I get from my almost 3 year old after she hears what here brothers answer. First of all just asking a 3 year questions makes them feel good. It can be quite entertaining. But I love the fact she is already thinking.

Quote from Free Thinker:

lol. they are six years old. at that age the need protection from things like viruses. yes, religion is a mind virus.

 

[FortuneTeller]

When I was a child I went to pre-school at a Lutheran church. I don't remember much about that. When I was a little older, I attended sunday school at a Methodist church. I remember activities that I did there and they are some of the most fondest memories of my life. I had fun. They did fun things. It was great. I remember being in Christmas plays. I remember playing games. And lots of other things.

Baron, let your son enjoy the same things I did when I was his age. Try not to let the atheist's ruin what fun he can have at church.

 

[futurecurrents]

Quote from FortuneTeller:

When I was a child I went to pre-school at a Lutheran church. I don't remember much about that. When I was a little older, I attended sunday school at a Methodist church. I remember activities that I did there and they are some of the most fondest memories of my life. I had fun. They did fun things. It was great. I remember being in Christmas plays. I remember playing games. And lots of other things.

Baron, let your son enjoy the same things I did when I was his age. Try not to let the atheist's ruin what fun he can have at church.

As an atheist I must admit some envy of this aspect of religion. It's too bad there are no community churches for atheists. The social community aspect of religion is quite nice. I think about this when I see the signs like "Potluck Dinner, Saturday " in front of churches.

 

[Wide Tailz]

Quote from Baron:

I have a six-year old son.

I'm torn between giving him the real truth about eternity as I see it, and putting him into a church environment

Why not explain both sides of the situation and let him decide what he believes?

I'm sure you can agree that it is right to avoid lying, stealing, vandalism, profanity, etc - so perhaps you could start there?

Church groups, sports, hobbies, career / talent development, and friends are no substitute for a mother and father. You are his mentor.

 

[FortuneTeller]

Quote from Wide Tailz:

Why not explain both sides of the situation and let him decide what he believes?

Why not let him experience both sides of the situation and see what he likes/believes? Have him go to church and when he gets home read atheist literature to him.

 

[annaland]

I was not raised in a religious household. My family, in their former homeland, was not able to practice religion so to us it was more about tradition and gathering with family. Once we moved and were able to practice more freely, we went to synagogue about once a year, and always had large family gatherings on holidays. To me being Jewish is about being together (and eating ) and occasionally attending religious services. It is more about doing the traditional things and believing than anything else. When I went to university, I took a course on science and religion as well as a number of courses on Judaism because I was curious. I now use religion to explain things that science cannot. Overall, the balance I was raised with worked well for me. I never felt like religion was shoved down my throat (which made me interested in it during my young adulthood) and always enjoyed it because it was simply tradition.

Quote from Baron:

Ok, I need some advice. I don't talk about myself here on ET as much as I should, but as the founder of this place, I feel like I need to turn to this community for a little wisdom in handling my current family situation.

I was raised in a Southern-Baptist household where there was only one true religion, and that was the one my parents taught me. This was OK growing up for a while but I felt like it pretty much failed miserably when I migrated into my adult years. No matter what church service I went to, I always left with more questions than I did answers. Even when the pastor would try his best to be apologetic and explain the tough questions, it was never quite good enough for me. And looking back, the worst people I've ever encountered were those that I had met at church.

The final nail in the coffin was when I read Stephen Hawking's book, "The Grand Design". He essentially said, "Believe what you want, but just make sure that what you believe lines up with your real-world observations". When I started to apply that to what I learned from a Christianity standpoint, I realized that virtually nothing, and I mean nothing, of what I had been taught about Jesus in the Bible was lining up with what I observed to be true in the real word. For example, churches across the country continue to have marriage counseling seminars for their members but yet statistics have shown time and time again that the divorce rate among Christians is almost identical to the rate among the non-believing population.

I could go on and on with this, but the bottom line is that I think I'm an athiest. But here's the problem: I have a six-year old son.

I'm torn between giving him the real truth about eternity as I see it, and putting him into a church environment where he may get a skewed view of religion but at least he'll learn some core principles from a peer group like helping others, staying away from drugs, etc.

My wife of course, is all about church and keeping us/him there whenever the doors are open. But I am so conflicted about it all. Any insight?

 

[MathAndLogic]

Quote from Baron:

Ok, I need some advice. I don't talk about myself here on ET as much as I should, but as the founder of this place, I feel like I need to turn to this community for a little wisdom in handling my current family situation.

I was raised in a Southern-Baptist household where there was only one true religion, and that was the one my parents taught me. This was OK growing up for a while but I felt like it pretty much failed miserably when I migrated into my adult years. No matter what church service I went to, I always left with more questions than I did answers. Even when the pastor would try his best to be apologetic and explain the tough questions, it was never quite good enough for me. And looking back, the worst people I've ever encountered were those that I had met at church.

The final nail in the coffin was when I read Stephen Hawking's book, "The Grand Design". He essentially said, "Believe what you want, but just make sure that what you believe lines up with your real-world observations". When I started to apply that to what I learned from a Christianity standpoint, I realized that virtually nothing, and I mean nothing, of what I had been taught about Jesus in the Bible was lining up with what I observed to be true in the real word. For example, churches across the country continue to have marriage counseling seminars for their members but yet statistics have shown time and time again that the divorce rate among Christians is almost identical to the rate among the non-believing population.

I could go on and on with this, but the bottom line is that I think I'm an athiest. But here's the problem: I have a six-year old son.

I'm torn between giving him the real truth about eternity as I see it, and putting him into a church environment where he may get a skewed view of religion but at least he'll learn some core principles from a peer group like helping others, staying away from drugs, etc.

My wife of course, is all about church and keeping us/him there whenever the doors are open. But I am so conflicted about it all. Any insight?

Hmm, can one person's mind encompass both science and religion? Can a person's mind reconcile a world of contradictions? Let's see, believing in both science and religion is like .... like ..., oh oh I know, it is like a man who believes he is a woman, and when he plays with himself, he uses his hand on his convex part of his anatomy, but in his mind when he is playing, he is visualizing having something shoved up HER concave portion of her anatomy.

Hmm, what to do? Ah, the government provides a solution !!!

Come to San Francisco and have a free sex change paid for by the tax payers of course !

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=253738&perpage=6&pagenumber=1

 

[Pekelo]

Quote from Wide Tailz:

Why not explain both sides of the situation and let him decide what he believes?

The kid is 6 year old. One of the problems of today's parents that they always want to offer choices and freewill to their kids. That can come later.
And since it is the US, the situation can be very different based on location. Does Baron want his kid to be ostracized based on his questioning the mainstream thinking? That can come later too.

In parenting, there is always a time and a place for everything. Giving too much information too soon can be a bad thing. Do you tell the truth about Santa to a 4 year old? What's the point?

In short, if I were Baron, I would just go with the wife for the time being (as long as the church is not an orthodox one) and wait with the eye opening until the kid is at least 12 years old.... It could be a good test of the kid's brightness if he can spot the inconsistencies....

If Baron wants me to I can tell him privately what is it like growing up in an atheist country, but I won't share everything publicly, there are just way too many assholes on P&R...

P.S.: Assuming that the kids are actually following the rules and teachings, (and they are most of the time not) I would want my kids to be Mormons/ Muslims until they are 20. A teenager who doesn't drink, do drugs or have sex??? Halleluyah!!!!

 

[nutmeg]

Quote from Pekelo:

The kid is 6 year old. One of the problems of today's parents that they always want to offer choices and freewill to their kids.

Excellent point. Children are not "little adults".

Not that I shove my crapola down kids throat but I do ask them what they want. Then I negotiate, when possible (but I rule).

Kids can be "smart" for their age but they lack life experience to apply the knowledge in context.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Pekelo:

The kid is 6 year old. One of the problems of today's parents that they always want to offer choices and freewill to their kids. That can come later.
And since it is the US, the situation can be very different based on location. Does Baron want his kid to be ostracized based on his questioning the mainstream thinking? That can come later too.

In parenting, there is always a time and a place for everything. Giving too much information too soon can be a bad thing. Do you tell the truth about Santa to a 4 year old? What's the point?

In short, if I were Baron, I would just go with the wife for the time being (as long as the church is not an orthodox one) and wait with the eye opening until the kid is at least 12 years old.... It could be a good test of the kid's brightness if he can spot the inconsistencies....

If Baron wants me to I can tell him privately what is it like growing up in an atheist country, but I won't share everything publicly, there are just way too many assholes on P&R...

P.S.: Assuming that the kids are actually following the rules and teachings, (and they are most of the time not) I would want my kids to be Mormons/ Muslims until they are 20. A teenager who doesn't drink, do drugs or have sex??? Halleluyah!!!!

Do you yourself have any children?