Raising Kids: Torn between Religion and Science

Quote from Baron:

Ok, I need some advice. I don't talk about myself here on ET as much as I should, but as the founder of this place, I feel like I need to turn to this community for a little wisdom in handling my current family situation.

I was raised in a Southern-Baptist household where there was only one true religion, and that was the one my parents taught me. :) This was OK growing up for a while but I felt like it pretty much failed miserably when I migrated into my adult years. No matter what church service I went to, I always left with more questions than I did answers. Even when the pastor would try his best to be apologetic and explain the tough questions, it was never quite good enough for me. And looking back, the worst people I've ever encountered were those that I had met at church.

The final nail in the coffin was when I read Stephen Hawking's book, "The Grand Design". He essentially said, "Believe what you want, but just make sure that what you believe lines up with your real-world observations". When I started to apply that to what I learned from a Christianity standpoint, I realized that virtually nothing, and I mean nothing, of what I had been taught about Jesus in the Bible was lining up with what I observed to be true in the real word. For example, churches across the country continue to have marriage counseling seminars for their members but yet statistics have shown time and time again that the divorce rate among Christians is almost identical to the rate among the non-believing population.

I could go on and on with this, but the bottom line is that I think I'm an athiest. But here's the problem: I have a six-year old son.

I'm torn between giving him the real truth about eternity as I see it, and putting him into a church environment where he may get a skewed view of religion but at least he'll learn some core principles from a peer group like helping others, staying away from drugs, etc.

My wife of course, is all about church and keeping us/him there whenever the doors are open. But I am so conflicted about it all. Any insight?
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If you don't think the jesus god story is real why the hell would you want your kids to take it on as fact? Would you want them to believe in Santa Claus for the rest of their lives, of course not. Years ago I was in the same spot you are in, I knew the jesus thing was silly and I thought it was harmless and that my son would be around some good people and learn some good values. Big mistake, he turned into a jesus nut, the older son was able to take the church thing with a grain of salt but the younger one, church and the bible screwed up his head. You seem smart and reasonable I think you can teach your kids right from wrong and to be kind honest people without the lies and guilt and magic the church thing would add. Just say no to church.
 
I raised two boys 10 and 12 years old to be free thinkers with a scientific worldview. I was raised in a highly religious family (at the time) and i believe it negatively effected me hence my going in the opposite direction. Now, i think i may have made a mistake. Both my kids are highly intelligent ( although in different ways) but have no tolerance for religious thought or those who espouse it-- I really wish I would have been more even handed rather than all logic and science---- Now, I am divorced and remarried and my ex wife is trying to inject some religious tolerance and faith into the boys but its not very succesful as they see it as weakness.

I really hate to see them becoming social darwinists and am working on reversing that trend but its brutal at this point--

Just a word of warning, too much science or too much religion are not good things. surf

PS.. just to clarify, I am not an atheist-- I believe there is a creator, but question whether or not this creator can be accessed by man.

I guess i fit into the deist category in the spirit of Jefferson and the like.
 
Baron, you and I have a similar dilemma. Having my son, who was raised in a moderate family, not church going, but we encouraged learning the bible and understanding Jesus. His mother was more religious, and attended church more than I.

Now, to the grandchildren. Sent to Christian Academies as a Private school before Public Education. This seems to have worked so far. And understand of God, history of Religion, and then tempered with Evolution and Science. Without discounting the other.

FWIW.
 
AE

"I think the most important question facing humanity is, ‘Is the universe a friendly place?’ This is the first and most basic question all people must answer for themselves.

"For if we decide that the universe is an unfriendly place, then we will use our technology, our scientific discoveries and our natural resources to achieve safety and power by creating bigger walls to keep out the unfriendliness and bigger weapons to destroy all that which is unfriendly and I believe that we are getting to a place where technology is powerful enough that we may either completely isolate or destroy ourselves as well in this process.

"If we decide that the universe is neither friendly nor unfriendly and that God is essentially ‘playing dice with the universe’, then we are simply victims to the random toss of the dice and our lives have no real purpose or meaning.

"But if we decide that the universe is a friendly place, then we will use our technology, our scientific discoveries and our natural resources to create tools and models for understanding that universe. Because power and safety will come through understanding its workings and its motives."

"God does not play dice with the universe,"

--Albert Einstein


I believe young kids love to engage on this question...
the answers change as they get older but they are frequently interesting.
Kids love socractic style conversations. Especially in the car.

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a. the first question... is the universe friendly... why... how do you know.
when they are young you lead them more... as they get older they may lead you. (see the einstein quote below.


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I also note... the real science comes in when you follow up your answer with ... why and or how do you know?

At the moment no one knows why our universe is so incredibly tuned that life can exist.


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b. As a supplement .. you might put it on God's court.... if you exist and you wish that I protect the little children and serve as a reasonable role model... please do so.
 
Quote from pspr:

"... The fact that he renounced the existence of God has no bearing on the truth of the matter.
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Nothing to argue. Believers take religion on faith. Non-believers say there is no "evidence", therefore the truth = there is no such thing as a deity.

Throughout history, man has attributed many things he did not understand to "the gods". All eventually explained in the real world.

Thousands of years. Countless generations. Lots of belief in LOTS of gods. All prior beliefs (other than "belief in belief") eventually proven wrong. Difficult to "believe" against that history.
 
Keep him out of any catholic or hell fire and damnation type of church. Let him go with his mom, assuming she's not part of any crazy train congregation. Soon enough he'll ask you why you're not going with them. Tell him the truth about your views and let him learn from both of you. About the age of 14, like most all teenagers, he'll think you're both idiots anyway and go his own way. At some point in his 20's or 30's he'll make a decision to go one way or the other. Whatever he chooses he'll be your son first which is what's really important. More than likely it will be his own life experience which will determine his beliefs at that point.
Or you can make him read FreeThinkers posts every single day until he goes mad.:eek: :D
 
I am a secular Jew, an athiest. I married a practicing Catholic, a beleiver. We have two daughters and they were baptized and confirmed. They were exposed to both points of view; there was little inculcation and no disagreements or arguments in the house between my ex and me over religion and God. My ex was free to take the kids to church which she did for a while (they were hellraisers and eventually the Father threw them out one Sunday) Both children were taught to respect each viewpoint and be free to choose what to believe. The result? One is an athiest, the other is uncertain, sort of agnostic, but I think would prefer to believe there is a Creator. Neither became integrated into the church's community though.

If you are certain about your beliefs, discuss it with your wife and
together decide how and when you should introduce your beliefs to your child.
 
Quote from CaptainObvious:

Or you can make him read FreeThinkers posts every single day until he goes mad.:eek: :D
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i would give me great satisfaction to be the one to have saved them from a life of mental bondage.


Beliefs should be a search for truth and understanding, not denying reality so you can have faith in a compendium of books written by unknown authors over hundreds and hundreds of years complied much later by other fallible men, as 100% literally correct. That is a faith that is truly blind
The very concept of faith is an insult to human intelligence. If you take something on faith, you are in effect saying, "I don't need evidence, facts, or logic. Evidence is worthless, facts are for ninnies, logic is nonsense. I'll believe whatever I want even if reality overwhelmingly shows that it's just not true."
 
Baron, having read all the responses (quite good actually) I'll throw one more thought out there.

As an agnostic raised by a Christian Missionary in a Buddhist/Shintoist culture I chose not to take my kids to church except for a brief period of exposure when they were very young.

I was completely shocked when helping them study for the SAT's for college how immersed it is with "Biblical" terms. For example... Prodigal...when have you ever heard it outside of church! What I discovered is if a person is not at least familiar with Bible literature then they are at a handicap (of knowledge) in our Judeo-Christian culture. Literature demands a working knowledge of the Bible.

So I would advise anyone that giving Children a religious education is fine. A personal journey into faith and spirituality is just that...personal. As their parent you lead by example and if you are honest, moral and compassionate then the odds are strong they will also be honest, moral and compassionate. Whoever says Agnostics/or atheists are not displays their own ignorance.
 
Quote from Free Thinker:


The very concept of faith is an insult to human intelligence. If you take something on faith, you are in effect saying, "I don't need evidence, facts, or logic. Evidence is worthless, facts are for ninnies, logic is nonsense. I'll believe whatever I want even if reality overwhelmingly shows that it's just not true."
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+1 And I would argue that this suspension of logic is a sin.

Certainly, if there was a God, he would want us to truly understand the world for how it is, not how we would like it to be. He would not want our superb vessel to be polluted with fantasy. The purest thinking most honors the creation.
 
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