Questions How to Get Started Trading with Probabilities

Quote from BobbiDigital:

Thanks for the responses. Some day I'll crawl back out of theoretical mode.

Anyone think there is merit in measuring total price movement on a given day as opposed to focusing on average daily range (high to low)? Big money doesn't profit every day, dealers do...and they have some control/insight into order flow.

Perhaps price travels approximately the same distance on a trend day as it does on a rotational day (iow everyday). The only difference is minimal retracement moves on the trend day as opposed to big retracement waves when price isn't going anywhere.

I need to think this one over a little more...to think of the best way to measure the segments - maybe, adding up moves that are least 2 points (high to low) in the ES.

Then I may be able to say, ok the ES has an ADR of 10 points, but oscillates 40 points on average...

BD

Your solution is to move your trading fractal to a faster trading fractal.

It is difficult once a person locks in to statistics.

Were you to be using finite maths, then things are very discernable.

Big money is locked into stats since they use quant's mystic to "sell" clients and huge capitalization prevents market activity being kept below the diturbance level.
 
I agree with previous posters. You must get a Ph.D. in statistics and be the best of the best. Because every market participant now uses statittiscs, the best will win.

Think about it, in sports, like 100-meter sprint, the fastest win. In trading, the best in statistics win. Those firms with people of a lesser degree cannot compete against the firms with people of Ph.D.'s in statistics. Simple as that.

Go back to school to get a Ph.D. in statistics. After you get your degree, you can take money from the market easily.
 
Quote from bone:

Go get yourself very well trained in the area of statistics.

Then go learn a high end stats package like S-Plus. Very popular with the quants. One of many good ones. Then learn how to data mine.

Just that simple. Should take you maybe four or five years...

Nah, don't listen to bone. It took me just 6 months (~1300 hours). Though, i was already pretty good at math and great at coding. So yeah maybe you should listen to him. Oh and i use matlab.

There's so much stuff out there, you just need to sit down and do it ffs.

And it's not true you need PhDs. You have no idea how many PhDs are actually pretty dumb. I'm at a level where i can comfortably read (and if i may say so even write) any paper you give me and call BS when i see it, as well as hold discussions. You just need to have a decent higher education as basis and have taken some math classes. The most useful tools, you can learn and understand in less than a year. The more complex ones, you can learn them but probably won't understand them for that much longer. Of course, one requirement is that you're not slow. If you know what i mean.
 
Quote from baro-san:

You have to continuously gauge the market's strength in the direction of the current trend, then make your decision accordingly.

To define "continuously" you need statistics.
To define "strength" you need statistics.
To define "direction" you need statistics.
To define "current" you need statistics.
To define "trend" you need statistics.
To define "decision" you need statistics.
To define "accordingly" you need statistics.

Except when it breaks down.
Then you need statistics on why it breaks down. :) amazing!
 
No matter what, trading relies on identifying patterns which repeats with enough consistency to allow one to make money trading these.

Realizing that it starts by the systematic analysis of past price action is a leap forward.

Don't get stopped by the nay-sayers, you won't know if that can work for you unless you try it.

I'll give you a big tip - everything works some of the time. Find where & when it works (positive edge), and more importantly where and when it really doesn't (negative edge, but flip it for another positive edge). The rest averages to zero, and must be avoided as it will only cost you comms + slippage in the long run.

Of course, you can ask on any forum until your face turns blue, no-one will give you any answer of direct value. So start writing your own code, and just to get started, use any indicator of your liking to create 2 opposite events (for example, a stochastics indicator, 1 event can be slow-sto crossing the 80% line downwards, the 2nd event being the symmetric - slow sto crossing the 20% line upwards)(another example would be, the breakout of the 1st Xmin range after the open - there, the 2nd event could be the session close). Task your software to save a bunch of datapoints each time one of these events fire (maximum positive & negative price excursion since last event being the very basic thing to look at, don't forget the date & time, and whatever else you get interest into). Once this is reliably saved in a file, in a format you can import in Excel, start analyzing that data. Use the pivot-table feature as much as possible. Find how you can bucket events as "positive" edge, "negative" edge, don't know.

It is possible that using simple indicators doesn't give you much, but I can guarantee you that by refining the events just a little, you'll get to see things most don't. And as you refine the events even more, making them more "meaningful" in market terms (who cares about a stoch crossover, really), it will be Christmas all year long.
 
Quote from BobbiDigital:

Thanks for the responses. Some day I'll crawl back out of theoretical mode.


BD
[/QUOTE

Why ?

You are being fed a couple of ideas. Your theory was given and not tested. There is no mode to get out of unless you are ready to test.

You need a few theories. Some about the markets, some about math.
Start with something simple. A moving average crossover. What are its odds? does it consistently loose or win ? either one is profitable.

And what if we change the variables of it ? what if we only use the strategy when a more short term average allows us to.

If you can program get used to manual work. It is not as bad as one may think.

Now you look at what data you can play with and if it is similar data or different.

how does a coin toss fit in?
does having a 1:10 Risk to reward ratio on its own make profit.
do things play out over time. ?
Does human emotion show up as random?

Flip a coin. does it land 50 50 ? if it does why cant knowing that lead to profit?

There is a program called "R" I am not sure how good it is, but it is free and kinda a shareware thing. this means that alot of newbies use it , and allot of new ideas show up on it , you can get library's of formulaes for just about anything you need.

Do you have any previous trades to reference? Are they 50 50 ? why not ?

Or you can follow which means assume and be led. For many this may be a good option.
 
My edge relies heavily on probabilities of patterns. How does everyone deal with the DDs during times where the market is manipulated and doesn't seem to follow those usual patterns? Or even when there is no volatility.
 
Quote from braincell:

Nah, don't listen to bone. It took me just 6 months (~1300 hours). Though, i was already pretty good at math and great at coding. So yeah maybe you should listen to him. Oh and i use matlab.

Hence the call sign "braincell". Spot on.
 
Quote from bau250:

My edge relies heavily on probabilities of patterns. How does everyone deal with the DDs during times where the market is manipulated and doesn't seem to follow those usual patterns? Or even when there is no volatility.


If there is no volatility, or volatility decreases too much, don't trade that market. Find another market that meets your requirements and trade that.
 
Quote from profitloss999:

I agree with previous posters. You must get a Ph.D. in statistics and be the best of the best. Because every market participant now uses statittiscs, the best will win.

Think about it, in sports, like 100-meter sprint, the fastest win. In trading, the best in statistics win. Those firms with people of a lesser degree cannot compete against the firms with people of Ph.D.'s in statistics. Simple as that.

Go back to school to get a Ph.D. in statistics. After you get your degree, you can take money from the market easily.

Hilarious, made me chuckle. I suppose v advanced degrees in maths and stats might be useful for OTC derivatives or HFT, but for trading vanilla equities, bonds, futures and options? Nah.
 
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