So you are arguing against the value of being unemotional in deciding right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable?
Question: how to deal with trolls? Can't anybody do something about them?
- Thread starter baro-san
- Start date
Speaking of the P&R Forum . . .
Db, it's been nice having this discussion. Baron has made his decision so the only reason I bothered explaining myself is I hope he will keep in mind my points when he evaluates how things are going.
It's 4:35 a.m. where I am and I need to hit the sack in an hour and a half so I can be up and ready for the London open. What's left of my weekend is going to be spent listening to music, and since I don't get into these discussions during the week, I'm afraid I must end here.
Cheers.
It's 4:35 a.m. where I am and I need to hit the sack in an hour and a half so I can be up and ready for the London open. What's left of my weekend is going to be spent listening to music, and since I don't get into these discussions during the week, I'm afraid I must end here.
Cheers.
Again, with all due respect, any TA discussion - whether SLA, indicators, price/volume channels, etc purport, each and every single one, to do one simple thing: describe how price has and is behaving. The hope, of course, is that somehow from that description there may occasionally be moments when based on the "was" and "is," one might make a better than even bet on what the likely "will be" will ... be
So, if someone shares with us a method of TA by which they describe the market, and their examples seem to do just that, then the next step (after one decides he or she is interested enough to pursue the matter further) would be to see if you yourself can replicate the results. If so, then "yeah!" you're on the road to financial nirvana (maybe). If not, then move on to your next investigation. That is, after all, what the scientific method is about: Form a hypothesis, test the hypothesis using methods that can be replicated by other independent researchers, and make your conclusions. If your results are positive, report them to the rest of the interested scientific community. Those interested will then test your conclusions for themselves. If upon testing your conclusions, I am unable to replicate your results, we then have the basis for a discussion. The problem here at ET is the critics never think or test anything for themselves, but nonetheless feel there is some basis for them to speak up. And what is worse is that once they start speaking, they don't know when to shut up. If only they could exercise just that much restraint, there'd be no troubles with anyone.
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I too believe in free speech. I also believe in the right to bear arms. At the same time I do not believe I have a right to discharge my weapon whenever, wherever, and at whomever I'd like (no matter how much I disagree with them). Similar limitations apply to speech as well. Most civilized peoples would agree that an individual liberty can extend no further than the point at which the free exercise thereof causes injury or harm or otherwise impinges on someone else's liberty.
It seems to me that if we take away the fact that B1S2 kept saying the same thing over and over and over again, this discussion would have gone much differently. We all agree that he had a right to bring up issues, and we almost all seem to agree that you need to be civilized and after doing it over and over again, it gets annoying, even if you don't agree with the SLA method.
Its really a shame that we can't remove this one variable (B1S2) and see how things could have progressed. I think he is more than allowed to carry on in his own thread and point out whatever he wants from whatever charts are publicly posted here, but doing this in someone's personal journal is very much "beating a dead horse".
The question going forward of course will be if this new feature helps any. Lets face it, if we have a thread where only Db, 40D, and wrbtrader are posting, this thread will absolutely die as there will be no conflict, no discussion about actual trades and everyone will just be giving each other high fives. Both sides seem to need each other because they feed off of each other, but I'm very curious to see how this works going forward.
Its really a shame that we can't remove this one variable (B1S2) and see how things could have progressed. I think he is more than allowed to carry on in his own thread and point out whatever he wants from whatever charts are publicly posted here, but doing this in someone's personal journal is very much "beating a dead horse".
The question going forward of course will be if this new feature helps any. Lets face it, if we have a thread where only Db, 40D, and wrbtrader are posting, this thread will absolutely die as there will be no conflict, no discussion about actual trades and everyone will just be giving each other high fives. Both sides seem to need each other because they feed off of each other, but I'm very curious to see how this works going forward.
The problem actually is that with SLA, there isn't much to test. This is an argument that lots of people have made, saying its incomplete. Db feels that he is confident in saying that its a trading plan, but its anything but. Once you have to add in lots of filters, which are absolutely necessary, you aren't actually even trading or testing the trading plan as he proposes. You don't trade SLA fortydraws, you don't wait for 1 min retracements.
With everything that has to be incorporated to make SLA viable, its hard right to give credit to SLA. SLA, the rules, don't even point to the essence of behavior, which I do believe is the foundation of all this. Its simply following lines and taking RET entries. The job of an SLA trader isn't to evaluate the quality of a RET, its to take it when it shows up. Sure Db says that you should test various RETs, come up with what constitutes a line break, etc., and he even says to drop the lines all together. So on the one hand he has a PDF which shows you how to trade, and when you read enough of what he says, you almost have to do everything but draw a line.
My whole point is that you keep defending him, but much of what he teaches is so vague that its hard to be wrong, or so specific that it isn't SLA. I don't think he means to steer people down a wrong path, but this is in fact the result when he presents a way to trade that sounds easy when you read the PDF, but is nothing but in real time.
Once again, the nuances of price movement is where the money is made, not following a straight line. He can't get past his own ego to admit that distilling trading into a set of simple rules cannot be done. Do his teachings have value? Absolutely... but the implementation is lacking, which is ironic in that he wants to help the new or struggling trader, but his do-it-yourself guide is anything but the best thing for a new or struggling trader. He says he is always amazed at how people struggle with this, but what I find amazing is that given how intelligent he is, he hasn't yet figured out why by making things sound simple, he is actually not making it any easier.
There's so much misinformation is this thread its comical or intentional. The troll issue was here before there was a B1S2.
The troll issue was so bad, Baron created a section called Chit Chat and Politic & Religion so that they would no longer pollute the regular trading threads. In addition, I have been forefront and have complained the most about trolls than anyone in this thread in the past (many feedback threads in the past about trolls and not one time was there an issue with B1S2).
My point, this is not about B1S2 or scribbles regardless to the endless number of message posts in this thread by you and others. B1S2 and others are just a "small chapter" in an ongoing sustaining issue here at Elitetrader.com that has a very long history. Simply, you may want to learn the history of the issue here before making inaccurate assumptions considering I've been involved in it almost from the beginning.
Hint: If you were here when ET had a chat room, you'll know the above is true...that's the location of the troll problem I first experienced and have openly been complaining about such...that's a long time ago and Baron has finally given us the tool to try to manage it ourselves. Also, I"m a little surprise about something else, I see two particular old timers in this thread and they have not said a single word about such...history of ET troll problem.
With that said, its more amazing why you keep discussing this and keep mentioning one single puzzle as if you remove it (B1S2)...the problem will go away. It won't because the problem was here before that as explained above.
Also, as I've stated many times to you and to others, there's other places online outside of ET that you're obviously not involved with where folks using Wyckoff/AMT posting live trades every damn trading day. Simply, if you think this is about Db, 40D (someone I"ve never heard until this year) and me...you're completely lost and stuck in a box. Wyckoff and AMT has been used long before most of us was even born...some get it...others don't.
Further, I'm a moderator at two other forums via a different user name. I understand the troll problem very well. In addition, I've been posting live trades almost every damn trading day with brokerage statements since 2002 elsewhere...trolls do not go away. Further, I have a close network and two other individuals that are part of my network just happen to compete in the Salon Du Trading...that's an audited, verified live trading competition with judges to verify every trade that's posted on a live big screen in front of a live audience every damn year. Heck, they even have video recordings of the competition posted all over Youtube...yeah, Youtube isn't part of Elitetrader. Yep, those guys are constantly trolled even when they just talk about the damn color of the sky on Stocktwits. Guess what? They are members of this forum (I bet that's a big surprise to you)...one just lurks and the other thinks this place is a joke and would never post a live trade here while posting live trades elsewhere almost every trading day.
I'm not talking about Db and 40D considering I just heard of 40D this year and Db is someone I've had conflict with before in the past here at ET. You really are misinformed and think in error that someone is obligated to post live calls just for you on a silver plate or for anyone else at this forum...grow up.
So please stop with the crap about if you did this and show me that and make this clearer to understand...we'll stop bothering you. That's bullshit. While you're at it, admit you're lacking in ET history before you again think this is about B1S2. Regardless, Elitetrader.com is not a suitable place for live calls even though some feel comfortable in doing such here at this forum. More power to them and nothing wrong with that. I myself will never make a live call here. Yet, I do have other trading topic interests as I specifically stated earlier in this thread and elsewhere for many years...I plan on starting threads about topics like psychology here at ET that are truer to my own personal interest because I consider them much more important than trade entries and exits...its something I grapple with the most in my own trading. I do not want some troll showing up to bother me as they did in the past many many years ago.
This is not just an ET problem...its a growing social media problem (e.g. facebook and twitter). Heck, does anyone remember the Yahoo message board problem back in the 90s ? That's a joke in comparison to today's trolls on social media.
Just as importantly, I do not want folks entering my threads to harass others in my threads via topics not associated with my thread topic just because they have a personal conflict with that person...allowing them to do such...they become trolls and prevent me from starting other threads.
End of your ET history lesson.
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I don't think this has anything to do with a history lesson. Its as if to say that just because someone was a good person for 40 years, if they kill one little old granny here and there, its ok because for 40 years they were a good Samaritan. I can only call things how I see them based on what I know, and there is nothing wrong with expressing this. You have every right to say I'm wrong, and I have every right to say what I see based on how I see it.There's so much misinformation is this thread its comical or intentional. The troll issue was here before there was a B1S2.
The troll issue was so bad, Baron created a section called Chit Chat and Politic & Religion so that they would no longer pollute the regular trading threads. In addition, I have been forefront and have complained the most about trolls than anyone in this thread in the past (many feedback threads in the past about trolls and not one time was there an issue with B1S2).
My point, this is not about B1S2 or scribbles regardless to the endless number of message posts in this thread by you and others. B1S2 and others are just a "small chapter" in an ongoing sustaining issue here at Elitetrader.com that has a very long history. Simply, you may want to learn the history of the issue here before making inaccurate assumptions considering I've been involved in it almost from the beginning.
Hint: If you were here when ET had a chat room, you'll know the above is true...that's the location of the troll problem I first experienced and have openly been complaining about such...that's a long time ago and Baron has finally given us the tool to try to manage it ourselves. I"m a little surprise because I see two particular old timers in this thread and they have not said a single word about such.
With that said, its more amazing why you keep discussing this and keep mentioning one single puzzle as if you remove it (B1S2)...the problem will go away. It won't because the problem was here before that as explained above.
Also, as I've stated many times to you and to others, there's other places online outside of ET that you're obviously not involved with where folks using Wyckoff/AMT posting live trades every damn trading day. Simply, if you think this is about Db, 40D (someone I"ve never heard until this year) and me...you're completely lost and stuck in a box.
Further, I'm a moderator at two other forums via a different user name and I've been posting live trades almost every damn trading day with brokerage statements since 2002 elsewhere. Further, I have a close network and two other individuals that are part of my network just happen to compete in the Salon Du Trading...that's an audited, verified live trading competition with judges to verify every trade that's posted on a live big screen in front of a live audience every damn year. Heck, they even have video recordings of the competition posted all over Youtube...yeah, Youtube isn't part of Elitetrader. Yep, those guys are constantly trolled even when they just talk about the damn color of the sky on Stocktwits. Guess what? They are members of this forum (I bet that's a big surprise to you)...one just lurks and the other thinks this place is a joke and would never post a live trade here while posting live trades elsewhere almost every trading day.
I'm not talking about Db and 40D considering I just heard of 40D this year and Db is someone I've had conflict with before in the past here at ET. You really are misinformed and think in error that someone is obligated to post live calls just for you on a silver plate or for anyone else at this forum...grow up.
So please stop with the crap about if you did this and show me that...we'll stop bothering you. That's bullshit. While you're at it, admit you're lacking in ET history before you again think this is about B1S2. Regardless, Elitetrader.com is not a suitable place for live calls even though some feel comfortable in doing such here at this forum. More power to them and nothing wrong with that. I myself will never make a live call here. Yet, I do have other trading topic interests as I specifically stated earlier in this thread and elsewhere for many years...I plan on starting threads about topics like psychology here at ET that are truer to my own personal interest because I consider them much more important than trade entries and exits. I do not want some troll showing up to bother me as they did in the past many many years ago.
Just as importantly, I do not want folks entering my threads to harass others in my threads via topics not associated with my thread topic just because they have a personal conflict with that person...allowing them to do such...they become trolls. End of your ET history lesson.
This is what really gets me about the so called old timers here. You guys just bitch and bitch about how things used to be and how right you are and how much better it is elsewhere and how little trolls there are and how Baron isn't doing things right and .... the list goes on. Jesus... if I was as rich as you guys are via trading and if I was as upset with this place and with so many posters here and if I knew of another great forum where they all hang out anyway, why the fuck would I be here? I don't understand why any of you waste your time here.
You mention there are all these wonderful places that have answers to my questions, so many great forums and posters and yet, you don't mention any. Perhaps you feel as if you shouldn't because this is ET and hence a conflict of interest, which is commendable, but once again, this place is full of everyone with their "empty" help. Why not just post a link? You'd save yourself paragraphs, and you'd save me paragraphs. I'd love to see how people actually trade, I'd love to see live calls or charts, but I'm not just about to go to youtube where any old loser can put up a video. It actually makes a difference who you follow, so once again, perhaps a link would be nice. Telling me how little I know, and how much there is out there, without any specific details is actually not all that helpful.
Lastly, why do all of you experts get so mad? Seriously... why don't you guys just skip the posts you don't want to answer to? Its almost like you take pleasure in telling everyone how wrong they are, which is of course just your own opinion, but you guys seriously seem to want to argue with an idiot (even if its me), and convince them how much of an idiot they are, and if they don't see it, you want to continue to call them an idiot until they understand, because you so crave to have the last word and make them understand. I seriously do not understand how all you experts that are so good at trading and having zero emotions and not being tied to any trade or care about any outcome get so worked up over some piddly little forum that you think is the worst one out there.
The minute I become consistently profitable all I ever plan to do is show charts, maybe post videos of what I do, and let who ever wants to use it, use it. I would be too busy enjoying life to argue with those who want to argue, but I would at least post something that I would deem useful.
We've had so many discussion back and forth now, and zero of it has been about trading. I'm not sure who is the dumber person here to continue engaging this. Perhaps me since I should be doing the work necessary as opposed to wasting time on here where as you already seem to have it all figured out. But then once again, if I was in your position, I'm not sure why I wouldn't just answer the questions posed with direct answers as opposed to pages of thought arguments and history lessons. I don't think this is the place where its helpful to answer a question with another question.
Once again though wrbtrader, in some sick twisted way, I do still enjoy conversing with you. I just cannot back down from standing firm in this viewpoint as I have presented above.