Question: how to deal with trolls? Can't anybody do something about them?

[k p]

Now having just found this thread now, I too am a little worried about implementing this. Its a form of censorship that works very well in Russia. Putin simply kills anyone who doesn't agree with him, or has them jailed to lock up their voice. So we might end up having threads where the original poster will appear to always be right since nobody challenges him, but this will simply be because any differing opinion would have just been deleted and that poster blocked. This might not stop someone from starting a different thread calling out the first thread, but this just gets silly.

But on a positive note, I am eager to see how this plays out. To read about how people used to make real time calls and had journals and such here sounds like a nice environment. So if the group that seems to think this will solve all the problems can start posting for everyone else to read, I am eager to see what kind of material they will now be sharing.

I've had my beefs with fortydraws in the past, and he labelled me a troll (unjustly), but given that he pops in every now and then and is just itching to share some more, hopefully he can start a new thread, free from all the distraction and show us how its really done given that all he says over and over again now is that its the trolls that keep him from posting. In fact, we have a small little group of traders here that are in the one camp that thinks this will drastically improve the journals section, so I'm curious if they can start a journal that will somehow show their trading prowess without the distractions and hence the reasons for why they aren't posting. (off the top of my head, I see Dbphoenix, fortydraws, Lajax, damnpenguins, etc. fall into this category)

So now that they are getting what they want, and hence can't say trolls are a distraction, lets see if they can actually add some value and show us something with a bit more transparency.

 

[dbphoenix]

Ok, it wasn't Elitetrader.com's chat room. Thus, that's why your statement conflicted with ET's chat room that I visited for about a month. There was no NoDoji in the duration I visited nor was any teachings of any kind from what I remember. I do remember real-time trades (not points later) and arguments, threats, taunting...

After a month of seeing such, I never went back and didn't understand the role of moderators considering they seem to participate in such. As for live trades in ET chat room (I don't know about elsewhere back n the day)...I did not see any price action move points away already from the posted trades by anyone.

Regardless if there's every going to be a chat again or not, regardless if live calls are made, regardless if broker statements are posted to verify the live calls...why does it matter when almost all doing such are teaching something about their trading ?

Seriously, most of the trades I've every seen posted here at ET occurred by someone also explaining "something" about their trade method or replying (to give answers) about why such and such was an entry or exit. Thus, there's teaching involved by most here at ET...some obviously more than others.

In the link I provided above, edabreu discusses the difference between trading rooms (not chat rooms) which are intended to educate and trading rooms that are focused on trades. If one doesn't know which he's getting in to, he is most likely to be disappointed. As you say, there can be some overlap. But if one is trading off a 5s chart, the best one can do is explain what to look for and what to do with it if and when one finds it. It is not possible except by voice to trade and talk about it at the same time, unless one abandons his own trading for the purpose of enabling others. And if one is doing it for free, the Good Samaritan thing, while noble, doesn't do much for the bank account. I was fortunate to find a good trading room in '98, and I still hear her, every day, saying "if it doesn't move, you don't want to be there".

 

[wrbtrader]

...Plus it affects one's own trading. If people are trying to learn how to trade, or they're looking for "calls", they need to find a good trading room, not a chat room. There should be little to no chat in a trading room, not if one is focused on the work and not just looking for some place to hang out.

I agree ET isnt' suitable for such considering its history with chat rooms. There's also a difference between chat room versus trading room. I think ET fell under "chat room" and not "trading room" considering all the problems I saw occurring there. Also, Joe never referred to ET's room as a "trading room"...he called it a "chat room".

 

[Teycir]

It is clear that there is a big problem on ET. People cannot write anything anymore without being attacked. What is most worrying is that these attacks are not based on scientifically knowledge but rather on what I call "terrorist behavior". The tactic is that people should be terrorized so that they stop posting. That's why postings like this appear everywhere and are countless:



Why should people be motivated to post on ET in response to these idiots? The answer: you only respond if you are an idiot yourself. For the simple reason that people are always attracted by people who have the same (lack of) intelligence.

So whatever the solution that will be implemented, I personally will never ever again post anything valuable or not valuable concerning trading systems on ET. On top of that I trade, so I don't have time to post continuously when markets are open. General rule is that the level of performance in trading is inversely proportional to the number of postings.

The fact that there are already a lot of threads and hundreds of postings about the problem of trolls, says a lot about the people trolling on ET.

Trolls say it is impossible to predict in trading, but I will predict now the reaction of the trolls to this posting: insults and parts of postings that will be taken out of context will appear again. All this will only confirm what I posted.

Baron wrote: I think the member base is intelligent enough..
The fact that we are having this discussion proofs just the opposite. If there would be (a minimum) of intelligence, there would be no problem. ET becomes more and more Elite Trolling.

First of all I was not talking to you, and then you came with the most idiotic accusations I read for a while. You started trolling me and then I answered and prove point by point how wrong and misinformed you are: about HFT volume (you based your calculation of numbers of trades on few quant shops ignoring all the other actors who use HFT and then said my wikipedia link is worthless because wikipedia is worthless), simple systems (you said they don't work) and some other ridiculous stuff. And now you are quoting me as an idiot troll. You are the troll. And yes I agree with you on one point "General rule is that the level of performance in trading is inversely proportional to the number of postings." 754 posts, most of them filled with negativity show you have a lot of time to waste.

 

[justrading]

If you make a public claim of any sort, you should be prepared to be challenged. Don't bitch and moan. If you don't want to be challenged, claim nothing.

Someone may be challenging you for the nth time. There may well be a dozen visitors reading your BS claim for the first time.

 

[wrbtrader]

...In his defense though, given that he has been at this for so many years, and wrbtrader has a long history with him and was around years ago when he supposedly was more open about his own trading, then perhaps Db is just mixing things up, which is understandable given that its just the same thing over and over again year after year....

None of this of course means that he can't trade himself. But in essence what we have is zero proof or demonstration of the method that he teaches, and of what he does himself.

To be fair...the mixup may be mine and not DB. For example, I am talking about my experience in Elitetrader.com chat room and I was the one (not DB) that started the conversation about problems in ET's chat room. In that one month of visiting ET's chat room, I did not see any live calls that were several points after the fact...none. In contrast, hitchslap is not talking about back n the day (I think) considering he mentioned your name (Kp) and you mentioning Feb 2014.

Therefore, obviously we're talking about different chat rooms...no cover up.

Getting back to the new moderating feature for OPs...its a big plus from my perspective and others. For example, I plan on starting a thread in the psychology section...anyone shows up in my thread with the intention of starting debates with someone due to prior conversations with that person elsewhere...essentially polluting my thread with off topic debates, accusations, attacks that has nothing to do with my thread topic...

They should not be allowed to enter my thread and behave like a troll and harass those participating in my thread.

That's what this is about. It's not about chat rooms, not about live calls, not about proof...its about the constant dragging of this crap into other peoples threads and trying to figure out a way of stopping that troll behavior from thread to thread.

As a reminder, this troll behavior is a long standing problem here at ET that has absolutely nothing to do with live calls...just go review Chit Chat and Political & Religion threads and talk to Baron himself about the history of trolls here. Live call arguments is just the newest (latest) crap. Next year, it will be something else and someone new but it needs to stop.

 

[dbphoenix]

To be fair...the mixup may be mine and not DB. For example, I am talking about my experience in Elitetrader.com chat room and I was the one (not DB) that started the conversation about problems in ET's chat room. In that one month of visiting ET's chat room, I did not see any live calls that were several points after the fact...none. In contrast, hitchslap is not talking about back n the day (I think) considering he mentioned your name (Kp) and you mentioning Feb 2014.

Therefore, obviously we're talking about different chat rooms...no cover up.

Getting back to the new moderating feature for OPs...its a big plus from my perspective and others. For example, I plan on starting a thread in the psychology section...anyone shows up in my thread with the intention of starting debates with someone due to prior conversations with that person elsewhere...essentially polluting my thread with off topic debates, accusations, attacks that has nothing to do with my thread topic...

They should not be allowed to enter my thread and behave like a troll and harass those participating in my thread.

That's what this is about. It's not about chat rooms, not about live calls, not about proof...its about the constant dragging of this crap into other peoples threads and trying to figure out a way of stopping that troll behavior from thread to thread.

As a reminder, this troll behavior is a long standing problem here at ET that has absolutely nothing to do with live calls...just go review Chit Chat and Political & Religion threads and talk to Baron himself about the history of trolls here. Live call arguments is just the newest (latest) crap. Next here it will be something else and someone new but it needs to stop.

This thread has turned into an object lesson for why such a move is necessary

I look forward to your thread. I won't be starting any more until this change is instituted.

 

[i960]

This thread has turned into an object lesson for why such a move is necessary

I look forward to your thread. I won't be starting any more until this change is instituted.

You never acknowledged the fact that you too do this exact same thing you want a feature to fight back against.

Simply stop arguing with Surf and B1S2 on every single thread and 30% of the bitching would probably go away overnight.

 

[justrading]

To be fair...the mixup may be mine and not DB. For example, I am talking about my experience in Elitetrader.com chat room and I was the one (not DB) that started the conversation about problems in ET's chat room. In that one month of visiting ET's chat room, I did not see any live calls that were several points after the fact...none. In contrast, hitchslap is not talking about back n the day (I think) considering he mentioned your name (Kp) and you mentioning Feb 2014.

Therefore, obviously we're talking about different chat rooms...no cover up.

Getting back to the new moderating feature for OPs...its a big plus from my perspective and others. For example, I plan on starting a thread in the psychology section...anyone shows up in my thread with the intention of starting debates with someone due to prior conversations with that person elsewhere...essentially polluting my thread with off topic debates, accusations, attacks that has nothing to do with my thread topic...

They should not be allowed to enter my thread and behave like a troll and harass those participating in my thread.

That's what this is about. It's not about chat rooms, not about live calls, not about proof...its about the constant dragging of this crap into other peoples threads and trying to figure out a way of stopping that troll behavior from thread to thread.

As a reminder, this troll behavior is a long standing problem here at ET that has absolutely nothing to do with live calls...just go review Chit Chat and Political & Religion threads and talk to Baron himself about the history of trolls here. Live call arguments is just the newest (latest) crap. Next here it will be something else and someone new but it needs to stop.

It's nice that you are enthusiastic about posting again. As someone who has interacted with you, learnt useful stuff and appreciate it, I can only welcome this.

The problems you mention really should be dealt with by moderators. If Baron will not do it, then I will openly say he is shirking his responsibilities, as in hey, y'all take care of this shit while I watch.

As for your example of P&R, that is the basement so I'm sorry to say you are wrong. There, there are no trolls, only different degrees of arseholes all fighting to be the biggest arsehole. Baron's warning about not being thin skinned when entering P&R is perhaps too mild. He should use the old mapmakers warning, "Beyond here there be dragons".

 

[k p]

To be fair...the mixup may be mine and not DB. For example, I am talking about my experience in Elitetrader.com chat room and I was the one (not DB) that started the conversation about problems in ET's chat room. In that one month of visiting ET's chat room, I did not see any live calls that were several points after the fact...none. In contrast, hitchslap is not talking about back n the day (I think) considering he mentioned your name (Kp) and you mentioning Feb 2014.

Therefore, obviously we're talking about different chat rooms...no cover up.

Getting back to the new moderating feature for OPs...its a big plus from my perspective and others. For example, I plan on starting a thread in the psychology section...anyone shows up in my thread with the intention of starting debates with someone due to prior conversations with that person elsewhere...essentially polluting my thread with off topic debates, accusations, attacks that has nothing to do with my thread topic...

They should not be allowed to enter my thread and behave like a troll and harass those participating in my thread.

That's what this is about. It's not about chat rooms, not about live calls, not about proof...its about the constant dragging of this crap into other peoples threads and trying to figure out a way of stopping that troll behavior from thread to thread.

As a reminder, this troll behavior is a long standing problem here at ET that has absolutely nothing to do with live calls...just go review Chit Chat and Political & Religion threads and talk to Baron himself about the history of trolls here. Live call arguments is just the newest (latest) crap. Next here it will be something else and someone new but it needs to stop.

Can't disagree with anything you say.

I have no experience with the ET chatroom as this was way before my time.

In terms of this new feature, it is unfortunate that B1S2 wasn't stopped a bit sooner. On the one hand, the thread he started himself was fine, and I think he should be allowed to take any chart that is posted publicly and comment on it. If the poster who posted it in his journal doesn't like it, all he has to do is not visit B1S2's thread, simple as that. Now of course if B1S2 keeps filling up a person's journal with the same thing over and over again, this is unfortunate, but the way to solve this I think would have been for a MOD to remove B1S2 from that thread. 40D was banned for a week from one thread because he started calling me names and swearing, so its very possible for the MODs to do this and it works incredibly well. Most people give up after they haven't been replied to, except for B1S2 of course who sometimes seems to post like a machine, even though I understand his intentions. LOL

But I think that given that so many people think its a good idea, especially those who want to teach (yourself, fortydraws, Dbphoenix), then if you guys find you will share more or are more transparent, then so be it. Its certainly can't get any worse I don't think.

I'm actually not that bothered by any of it. After a while, I just learn to quickly scroll past posters who I don't want to read. You would think a person who is a good trader, and hence can focus, would be just as good at not being influenced by any one poster and simply scroll by. The same type of mindset necessary to trade well would I think also prepare one to not get too wrapped up with a couple of posters. All you have to do is leave them alone but they are constantly being fed by those very same posters who complain about them so I'm not really sure if the problem is with the trolls or the one's complaining about them to be honest.