Question for Grob/Hershey...
- Thread starter makosgu
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Have you given up on sct for good Easyrider, or are you gonna try again some time?
Isn´t one big problem that it is so difficult for some one who is used to follow the trend to suddenly go against it? There´s a conflict between the two ways of thinking. There are probably a lot of trendfaders and followers that have about the same success rate, but I imagine very few are equally successfull with both following and fading on the same day.
Maybe spending a couple of months studying fading and try to get into that way of thinking before trying to combine it with trend following would be a way to get around the problem?
Seems to me that sct requires that you´re an expert on everything from swingtrading to scalping dom, and being able to see the market on several different levels at the same time. To me it seems like it should be easier to cut it up in pieces and try to learn it bit by bit.
I still believe you were right when you said that it should be possible to sct without dom and the fine tune stuff if your not aiming for every tick.
Isn´t one big problem that it is so difficult for some one who is used to follow the trend to suddenly go against it? There´s a conflict between the two ways of thinking. There are probably a lot of trendfaders and followers that have about the same success rate, but I imagine very few are equally successfull with both following and fading on the same day.
Maybe spending a couple of months studying fading and try to get into that way of thinking before trying to combine it with trend following would be a way to get around the problem?
Seems to me that sct requires that you´re an expert on everything from swingtrading to scalping dom, and being able to see the market on several different levels at the same time. To me it seems like it should be easier to cut it up in pieces and try to learn it bit by bit.
I still believe you were right when you said that it should be possible to sct without dom and the fine tune stuff if your not aiming for every tick.
everything that jack has posted here, on msn, or anywhere that is related to trading builds on itself.
the stock stuff, the futures stuff, the sct stuff, whatever! it ALL connects. You lose NOTHING by studying all of it and in fact you GAIN a deepening of understanding. When you hit a brick wall in some aspect of the futures, maybe it's time to zoom out and look at how the stock stuff is done to see the P-V relation at work in a different light.
avoid imprinting the experience of failure.
my intention is to be helpful.
Personally I dont think it is the most efficient way to make money, for me. It may be possible for someone else to change gears and ramp up when conditions are right but I am not agile enough to make constant adjustments to size when things start moving. It is much easier for this old fart to wait for ideal conditions and then act. It has always been primarily an intellectual exercise for me, to kill time when the market is slow, but I have found other ways to do that.
p.s. I agree with Dan that theres a lot to be gained by studying all of Jacks work.
p.s. I agree with Dan that theres a lot to be gained by studying all of Jacks work.
Thanks for comments Dan.
But I´m not aiming for sct right now, I just hoped that easyrider would give it some more work, if he wasn´t so found of computer games I believe he could do it. He always says stuff like "I´m too old, I´m not smart enough" and so on, but I think he´s just a bit lazy
I´ve actually found a small hole in the brick wall, over the last month things are getting easier and easier. I think it takes long time to build a confidence in what you´re doing though. I´m still mostly surprised - did I win today again? Somethings gotta be wrong. I´m just waiting for the market to punish me...
But I´m not aiming for sct right now, I just hoped that easyrider would give it some more work, if he wasn´t so found of computer games I believe he could do it. He always says stuff like "I´m too old, I´m not smart enough" and so on, but I think he´s just a bit lazy
I´ve actually found a small hole in the brick wall, over the last month things are getting easier and easier. I think it takes long time to build a confidence in what you´re doing though. I´m still mostly surprised - did I win today again? Somethings gotta be wrong. I´m just waiting for the market to punish me...
the market will never punish you for doing what it's telling you to do.
the pv relation is the language of the market.
that's why it's the 'holy grail'.
think about it, what are the only ways the market speaks?
price.
volume.
so effort is made to understand the relationship between price and volume on as many different levels and in as many different contexts as possible.
have knowledge about the pv relation (easy to get)
experience the pv relation by being in trades where it is at work
gain skill at playing the game by experiencing being in
i think it's in that order...you can't have (useful) skill without first having exp...and you can't have (useful) exp without first having (useful) knowledge
this is why looking at that gap stuff is ineffecient stalker man. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, it's just that it doesn't matter. The P/V relation (and the channels that the relation creates) is what counts...always.
this is why edge trading never works. (easyrider's 'edge' is based on PV relation...so i'm not throwing his edge in the same category).
edge stuff doesn't work, it's based on trying to find some anomoly that works well enough to meet some RvR thingy. The reality however, is that only 'keeping up with things'...works.
jack's 80 edges document addresses that stuff.
the pv relation is the language of the market.
that's why it's the 'holy grail'.
think about it, what are the only ways the market speaks?
price.
volume.
so effort is made to understand the relationship between price and volume on as many different levels and in as many different contexts as possible.
have knowledge about the pv relation (easy to get)
experience the pv relation by being in trades where it is at work
gain skill at playing the game by experiencing being in
i think it's in that order...you can't have (useful) skill without first having exp...and you can't have (useful) exp without first having (useful) knowledge
this is why looking at that gap stuff is ineffecient stalker man. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, it's just that it doesn't matter. The P/V relation (and the channels that the relation creates) is what counts...always.
this is why edge trading never works. (easyrider's 'edge' is based on PV relation...so i'm not throwing his edge in the same category).
edge stuff doesn't work, it's based on trying to find some anomoly that works well enough to meet some RvR thingy. The reality however, is that only 'keeping up with things'...works.
jack's 80 edges document addresses that stuff.
Dan, you have this picture in your head where set-up trading and jacks ideas are completely opposite of each other. that´s not true at all.
If you dumbly place a bet when some conditions are meet and don´t listen to the market, THEN there is a huge difference. But i wouldn´t dream of doing that. Frankly, i don´t give a shit if i trade a triangle, flag or retracement to 20 ema, it´s my reading of the market that counts. I just use special conditions to get a good entry and to have more fixed rules which i feel is necessary when you´re new and try to switch to real money.
Gaps, formations, support resistence, channels, expansion and contraction on daily charts DO reflect the relationship between sellers and buyers. They are important, and they are very useable when trading. They don´t emerge to provide trading opportunities for daytrades but are there for a reason, and I think it´s important to think about those reasons.
I´ts my strong believe that there are a lot of things you have to understand about the market if you´re not gonna get lost in the NOW with prv and channels. At least it has helped me enormously to study the daily chart, 60-min and 15-min together with channels, formations and s/r-levels carefully before the day starts.
If you dumbly place a bet when some conditions are meet and don´t listen to the market, THEN there is a huge difference. But i wouldn´t dream of doing that. Frankly, i don´t give a shit if i trade a triangle, flag or retracement to 20 ema, it´s my reading of the market that counts. I just use special conditions to get a good entry and to have more fixed rules which i feel is necessary when you´re new and try to switch to real money.
Gaps, formations, support resistence, channels, expansion and contraction on daily charts DO reflect the relationship between sellers and buyers. They are important, and they are very useable when trading. They don´t emerge to provide trading opportunities for daytrades but are there for a reason, and I think it´s important to think about those reasons.
I´ts my strong believe that there are a lot of things you have to understand about the market if you´re not gonna get lost in the NOW with prv and channels. At least it has helped me enormously to study the daily chart, 60-min and 15-min together with channels, formations and s/r-levels carefully before the day starts.
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