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Question for Grob/Hershey...
- Thread starter makosgu
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Stalker
You might read this post and another on the next page of that thread. I have questioned Jack on this several times as it did not seem logical that the small volume of YM would lead ES's huge volume. All I can say is monitor it for awhile and see what happens. You cannot see these relationships in a day or two. It takes screentime.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54106&perpage=6&pagenumber=9
When I asked this question I did not doubt that it was true but was very curious why it worked. The same thing applies to the channels. I cannot figure out for the life of me why they work but they do.
You might read this post and another on the next page of that thread. I have questioned Jack on this several times as it did not seem logical that the small volume of YM would lead ES's huge volume. All I can say is monitor it for awhile and see what happens. You cannot see these relationships in a day or two. It takes screentime.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54106&perpage=6&pagenumber=9
When I asked this question I did not doubt that it was true but was very curious why it worked. The same thing applies to the channels. I cannot figure out for the life of me why they work but they do.
Quote from Stalker:
hey,
really appriciate the picture of the gaussians, although i had understood the basics it became much clearer with a picture.
thanks grob,
/Stalker
I thought the team was on the verge o a breakthrough with babak.
I typed a really simple step by step process to get the key truning point for making money begin to appear for babak's benefit.
He could not begrdge himself or me or the world the small effort to create the picture.
By defining a requested answer in the form of a picture that slowly emerges from the very point where the key is located is the creation of a beautiful expereince from where a person never goes back to where he was before.
This NLP process is remarkable.
I waited in the expectation that maybe he would get off the denial on my prior posted trading results he won't find for himself.
I felt by redirecting him to something he could create as a picture of a real major lifetime asset that everyone should own personally, that he might recognize the help he is screaming for.
He sent me a PM entitled thanks.
The content said that my post on building the picture was final prove that I was insane or some such.
This all means that he is very close to ending his personal drama on wanting to trade without volume and 19 other things he denies are of help.
He is now on a path doing his journal asking for suggestions that are the antithese of what the dream team does here.
fortunatelt there are many many ways to make high velocity money. They do seem to converge, however.
I posted the picture by doing it on paint with erased ellipses as guides for the red and black volume gaussians. I just set up a row of ten eggs on a line and filledin the reds first, then the blacks. Then I labelled stuff and added the ES long channel turning into a short channel.
seeing the overlap is so important.
for making money you are rivietted to the repeating gaussians.
then you see the Gaussain color BEGIN to Reverse. Hit T with a rversal trade and confirm it with the gaussian new pattern repeating.
To draw what you are looking for and have to wait a day or so to see it can really build the intensity to have it happening.
When I mentor a person on my set up they get to be coached in exvery aspect of this kind of stuff before it comes on the screen. It is like a continuing religious experience for them.
Mak, Steve, Liz and I met twice. Liz went shopping after a while each time. We just chatted and I drew picutres on yellow pad sheets which were copied for reference. We were all peers based on several considerations.
There was an intense continuing exchange of stuff for acouple of hours at a shot. It was like gluing things together into a whole where I got to correograph the sequence of asembly. whatever component came up both steve and Mak had their copies of the idea and their corresponding past annotations.
We were conducting an intense PROCESS.
Liz is trained and licensed in NLP and hypnosis. She does 30% a month in equities. What I do is deliboratively coached from the viewpoint methodology of delivery of support. RPI has a department for leadership where the emphasis is on understanding Briggs Meyrs and they make use of the 8 General motors precepts. they bring out talent to the Nth degree. SCT is similar and parallel to this. It is a process for embedding and bringing out total talent to trade effectiveely and efficiently.
In the time that Mak, steve and I spent together we felt we made a very constructive complete pass on gluing all the parts together as a building process. It was a very invigorating and enabling process. I felt like I was able to be a very strong supporting person for the very efective application of knowledge and skills.
The drills coming up are going to be similar to the above. Once introduced they are repeated ad infinitum. This combination of ideas (truths) and their repitition builds the mind exponentially.
The distractors probably have several considerations on their minds. As I think about how they are treating themselves it must start with something like shoot the messenger. We have a message that can be unsettling to a person who has worked long and hard at repairing a methodology for a long time.
SCT does not have any component like placing a bet and hoping while having a stop in place just in case the bet desn't work out.
We haven't a big focus on back testing either since back testing doesn't handle the repeated routine of monitoring, analysis, decsion making and timely action. It doesn't handle the coarse, medium and fine monitoring by doiing sweeps of leading indicators.
Most of all detractors do not have the mental ability to deal with any alternative to entry and exit approaches. the hold and reversal strategy is not something that can come into their consciousness.
For me at some point, I get to the place where they need to be caused to take actions to leave the area. I dislike it deeply when they cannot go away as they promise and then stay away.
As this thread commences, it will go much better than before. Contributors, learners, those at inquirery will all help to maintain the progress which will be subtending the active real time trading.
I do not think it will be a problem that the level of effectiveness and efficiency is new, by enlarge to ET. It is a fact that there are many high velocity money making strategies. They have been seen before and have come from very diverse locations around the globe.
It is my belief that capabilities for making money can be greatly enhanced by the electronic advances that support making money. I see mak really quickly explaining how he enhances stuff. his performance is there to see as well.
I particularly like how all team members state their progress in refing what they are doing. this very pragmatic human engagement is the most helpful thing that can happen. It is the essence of how transference occurs.
we have the step to make the guassian pic.
we have the pic.
We have Maks flow chart of the process.
and we have tuesday am coming up on this new thread.
I may be MIA for a while, sorry.
Quote from Stalker:
I´ve got some basic questions:
1. Why are we focused on dow and not s&p 500 index when trading es? Should seem more logical to me.
2. If dow leads ym - why not draw 2-min channels directly on indu?
I´m probably missing something...
/Stalker
SH!T... Stalker, you are an order of magnitude sharper than I was within my first few posts. I have alot of filed items in my room. It's strange but when a topic is on the table I know exactly where to look and even remember what the post looks like to be able to read and reread. It is like having to turn your house upside down and knowing what the item you are looking for looks like even thought I may not have known initially what it is for. Instead, when I understand what was being said (eureka moments), I know exactly which posts to pull out and how it fits in. Your questions are so important and relates to another powerful aspect of where rubber is meeting the road. I will find some related links. I also have an excel tool for this that is a work in progress (YM/INDU - str/squ RT matrix migration)... Still refining to make it intuitive.
MAK!
A few notes:
Re: ym guassians:
Thanks for posting the picture, jack. I would say that everyone involved in the previous thread (nwb's ramp up) understood it, but who knows. Anyway, mak & others, at the sct level the R2R and B2B are confirmation of the prior reversal on the LTL or FTT, or of the BO. The switch often occurs at the pt 3 of the opposite trend on YM, and pt3/RTL of the first traverse of the new direction in ES.
edit: i.e., you already reversed, now (b2b, r2r) the trend is reversing as well. That's an explicit distinction that is easy to miss. Hold. Relax.
Relax. Mind the hitches. The way I managed the to relax (about this particular item) was to prepare an excel spreadsheet that annotated R2R and L2L for me, algorithmically ignoring as possible R2R and B2B points any volume bar of less than 50% of the previous bar's volume. This was far better than I could do by hand. Unless you have excellent self-control already, it is very easy to dwell on this too much, ruining your sweeps. Shout "Next!" to yourself.
That was a "walk carefully on the ice" picture, I hope. The excel is attached.
Re: ym/indu
Futures lead the cash. Google "s&p premium program trading". The same game (sorta ) happens on the ym, although on a smaller scale. There is so much money, and so much interest, and so much collective refinement from the group of people moving large money in the dj/ym, it is a neat simplyfying assumption to just accept that some very smart people are picking up pennies in the ym along with the $10 bills they're making in the DJ stocks. It's icing on the cake. No-one's ever talked about this, but how hard would it be for the same group of people to be picking up nickels at the same time in the S&P?
The S&P, as a broader index, just ambles along behind the action. Smart money in the S&P is Ym smart money's brawny, but slower, sidekick. Think ES' Vin Diesel to YM's Jet Li. Sure, it's a bad movie, but there's some serious a**-kicking going on.
Aside: To answer the inevitable questions: I am not trading and have no idea when I will be. When I do, it will be just rockets for awhile. I have done a lot of repair work, but there's no guarantee it's enough.
Regards,
Laz
P.S. The excel is linked to qcharts, but I think it should be easy to port to other platforms.
Re: ym guassians:
Thanks for posting the picture, jack. I would say that everyone involved in the previous thread (nwb's ramp up) understood it, but who knows. Anyway, mak & others, at the sct level the R2R and B2B are confirmation of the prior reversal on the LTL or FTT, or of the BO. The switch often occurs at the pt 3 of the opposite trend on YM, and pt3/RTL of the first traverse of the new direction in ES.
edit: i.e., you already reversed, now (b2b, r2r) the trend is reversing as well. That's an explicit distinction that is easy to miss. Hold. Relax.
Relax. Mind the hitches. The way I managed the to relax (about this particular item) was to prepare an excel spreadsheet that annotated R2R and L2L for me, algorithmically ignoring as possible R2R and B2B points any volume bar of less than 50% of the previous bar's volume. This was far better than I could do by hand. Unless you have excellent self-control already, it is very easy to dwell on this too much, ruining your sweeps. Shout "Next!" to yourself.
That was a "walk carefully on the ice" picture, I hope. The excel is attached.
Re: ym/indu
Futures lead the cash. Google "s&p premium program trading". The same game (sorta ) happens on the ym, although on a smaller scale. There is so much money, and so much interest, and so much collective refinement from the group of people moving large money in the dj/ym, it is a neat simplyfying assumption to just accept that some very smart people are picking up pennies in the ym along with the $10 bills they're making in the DJ stocks. It's icing on the cake. No-one's ever talked about this, but how hard would it be for the same group of people to be picking up nickels at the same time in the S&P?
The S&P, as a broader index, just ambles along behind the action. Smart money in the S&P is Ym smart money's brawny, but slower, sidekick. Think ES' Vin Diesel to YM's Jet Li. Sure, it's a bad movie, but there's some serious a**-kicking going on.
Aside: To answer the inevitable questions: I am not trading and have no idea when I will be. When I do, it will be just rockets for awhile. I have done a lot of repair work, but there's no guarantee it's enough.
Regards,
Laz
P.S. The excel is linked to qcharts, but I think it should be easy to port to other platforms.
Attachments
Stalk,
The viewpoints posted to your Q's are right on the mark.
Your ramp up is going well as you have been told.
to really cement in what you are learning, take the chance and trouble to post your screen annotations on what you are doing. By doing this, others will suggest further improvements to you.
Your qestions are always appropriate and they are best oriented to the improvements in what you are doing.
I know your dad and you are going to get your screens and feeds up to an excellent level as well.
What is going to be happening here is that we will be ramping up to SCT expert levels. Now is the time for you to have the facility using the foundation building blocks.
I am scooping up all the posts and putting them into the 10 buckets we have. I am writing pieces to fillin the pictures and to edit down the text. I insert your posts as procress reports in various streams. So by posting your annotations and activity in the am, you and guys like txuk provide status reports on the level of the group on the learning process.
The daily trading provides us all with examples of trades and the segways to other trades. It also shows how the SCT can be automated in various software and spreadsheets once it is understood and in use.
The setting of any trading day is an incredible display of the potential of the market to deliver money to traders. The opportunity is there. It is clear and always providing and output to any kind of successful trader. A vast array of successful methods are always at work harvesting profits. The H/L range of any day provides anyone with a vast excess of earning power to achieve any goal with even a low efficiency and effectiveness.
To focus on this ramp up to have the power of SCT at hand, it is a matter of tapping into dream team resourses and using some of the market's continuing potential (paper trade to make money to earn more trading contracts) to have a nominal number of contracts with which to operate.
Look at the following scratch start for acquiring capital. Also look at why you should be posting what you are doing. You need to join in with your annotating and keep paper trading logs as well. Post everthing so you can get criticism. If you have a monitoring, analysis, decision making or timely action question, ask about these four topics over and over. If you have begun to sweep while monitoring, ask about what to monitor and ask about the coarse, medium and fine parts of sweeping.
Not look at what succeeding by achieving 4 points of movement per day, gets you:
Nailing 4 points a day for each contract in use lets a person go from 1 contract to 10 contracts in about 40 days by doubling from 1 to 2 to 4 to 8 then adding 2 more to 10 contracts. This can only happen, however if there is knowledge, skills and experience in place. When they are, then 4 points a day is not what is being made daily. It is an entirely different picture where greater effectiveness and efficiency are at work. 4 points of price movement is in hand soon after any morning begins. 6 and 1/2 hours of seamless continuous trading every day yields a good portion of what the market offers daily. All of this happens day after day within the annotated projections you are beginning to do. You see how doing the gaussians that were suggested to babak immediately take you further towards understanding.
Work very hard.
The viewpoints posted to your Q's are right on the mark.
Your ramp up is going well as you have been told.
to really cement in what you are learning, take the chance and trouble to post your screen annotations on what you are doing. By doing this, others will suggest further improvements to you.
Your qestions are always appropriate and they are best oriented to the improvements in what you are doing.
I know your dad and you are going to get your screens and feeds up to an excellent level as well.
What is going to be happening here is that we will be ramping up to SCT expert levels. Now is the time for you to have the facility using the foundation building blocks.
I am scooping up all the posts and putting them into the 10 buckets we have. I am writing pieces to fillin the pictures and to edit down the text. I insert your posts as procress reports in various streams. So by posting your annotations and activity in the am, you and guys like txuk provide status reports on the level of the group on the learning process.
The daily trading provides us all with examples of trades and the segways to other trades. It also shows how the SCT can be automated in various software and spreadsheets once it is understood and in use.
The setting of any trading day is an incredible display of the potential of the market to deliver money to traders. The opportunity is there. It is clear and always providing and output to any kind of successful trader. A vast array of successful methods are always at work harvesting profits. The H/L range of any day provides anyone with a vast excess of earning power to achieve any goal with even a low efficiency and effectiveness.
To focus on this ramp up to have the power of SCT at hand, it is a matter of tapping into dream team resourses and using some of the market's continuing potential (paper trade to make money to earn more trading contracts) to have a nominal number of contracts with which to operate.
Look at the following scratch start for acquiring capital. Also look at why you should be posting what you are doing. You need to join in with your annotating and keep paper trading logs as well. Post everthing so you can get criticism. If you have a monitoring, analysis, decision making or timely action question, ask about these four topics over and over. If you have begun to sweep while monitoring, ask about what to monitor and ask about the coarse, medium and fine parts of sweeping.
Not look at what succeeding by achieving 4 points of movement per day, gets you:
Nailing 4 points a day for each contract in use lets a person go from 1 contract to 10 contracts in about 40 days by doubling from 1 to 2 to 4 to 8 then adding 2 more to 10 contracts. This can only happen, however if there is knowledge, skills and experience in place. When they are, then 4 points a day is not what is being made daily. It is an entirely different picture where greater effectiveness and efficiency are at work. 4 points of price movement is in hand soon after any morning begins. 6 and 1/2 hours of seamless continuous trading every day yields a good portion of what the market offers daily. All of this happens day after day within the annotated projections you are beginning to do. You see how doing the gaussians that were suggested to babak immediately take you further towards understanding.
Work very hard.
i replay charts today and practise drawing channels and monitoring volume. as i already found out last week it´s not the same thing to understand this in theory and to be able to do it yourself. i have a really hard time to se the difference between a change in trend and a traverse within the existing channel. anyway, doesn´t bother me at the moment, i´ll just keep on practicing.
okey, i´m gonna post charts today when i have doubts about stuff.
About this stretch/squeeze, i don´t know, maybe i got it all wrong from the beginning. Everybody here on ET talks about "the cash". I assumed that it was slang for the underlying indexes, but know i´m lost.
Cash=Indu in our case?
Lazis writes "Futures lead the cash". I thought grob said the opposite?
cash leads the dow, dow leads es, ym leads es, dow leads cash, cash leads s&p...
/Stalker, a bit catatonic again...
okey, i´m gonna post charts today when i have doubts about stuff.
About this stretch/squeeze, i don´t know, maybe i got it all wrong from the beginning. Everybody here on ET talks about "the cash". I assumed that it was slang for the underlying indexes, but know i´m lost.
Cash=Indu in our case?
Lazis writes "Futures lead the cash". I thought grob said the opposite?
cash leads the dow, dow leads es, ym leads es, dow leads cash, cash leads s&p...
/Stalker, a bit catatonic again...
Stalker my advice is to concentrate on drawing the channels and gaussians. The fine sweeps of squeeze/stretch, dom, etc. should be left until much later. You can do just fine trading retraces in the channels in the beginning. Trying to swallow the whole meal in one bite is a sure way to burn out fast.
you´re right easy, always been impatient, gotta work on that flaw in my personality.
Finishes my meals in about 3 minutes. Taking a sh*t - 90 seconds. Mom on the phone - 45 seconds. Brushing teeths - 15-20 seconds.
oughta take up meditation again, but right now it´s the channels and gaussians...
/Stalker
Finishes my meals in about 3 minutes. Taking a sh*t - 90 seconds. Mom on the phone - 45 seconds. Brushing teeths - 15-20 seconds.
oughta take up meditation again, but right now it´s the channels and gaussians...
/Stalker
Quote from Stalker:
Finishes my meals in about 3 minutes. Taking a sh*t - 90 seconds. Mom on the phone - 45 seconds. Brushing teeths - 15-20 seconds.
/Stalker
LOL. If I had to name the absolute number one requirement for learning to trade it would be patience. Heres a good article for you to read. One of the best intros to trading I have seen.
.http://www.sfomag.com/homefeaturedetail.asp?ID=-1080622177&MonthNameID=September&YearID=2005
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