PropTrader - Daily exploits

have you ever run into halt,while in position,holding like 40K shares and stock did move against you?

good to see a profitable trader,but imo-it's suicidal approach and only matter of time, till you run into situation above. happens to me many times. i know,i know-i trade less liquid stocks and everything...but think about it for a minute.
 
Quote from Bob111:

have you ever run into halt,while in position,holding like 40K shares and stock did move against you?

good to see a profitable trader,but imo-it's suicidal approach and only matter of time, till you run into situation above. happens to me many times. i know,i know-i trade less liquid stocks and everything...but think about it for a minute.
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Yes I have been in a halt which went against me. I had a 20k position and lost $20,000.

It was a stock that was having major problems. I knew the risks involved. Couldn't do anything about it. It halted... Didn't reopen till the next day and I got out as soon as it opened. Was actually kind of happy because I saved myself $10k by getting out then.

I completely disagree with your assertion though. Anyone can get caught in a halt on any stock. Just because I have size doesn't make a difference. Your right... It's more likely for u because of liquidity but the risk is the same for everyone. I take size to make more $$.

In fact I take less risk because I don't hold overnights like "investors" or swing traders. I actually think I have the least risk in comparison to others. Size is size. If I had 5k I would still lose... I could have also been short just as easily as I was long
 
Quote from ddlee:

Its the nature of the beast
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Exactly... If you can't handle the heat don't go in the freaking kitchen. If you can't accept the risks involved in trading then don't trade in the first place. I accept the risks and I get rewarded for taking these risks!
 
Quote from PropTraderMTL:

Exactly... If you can't handle the heat don't go in the freaking kitchen. If you can't accept the risks involved in trading then don't trade in the first place. I accept the risks and I get rewarded for taking these risks!
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you sounds like the guy..what was his name?...ah...victor niederhoffer :p
 
Didn't get to update yesterday as I was reformatting computer and then Friday night plans. I prefer to update right after the close of the market as the memories of the trading day are fresh and not clouded by a hangover. Anyways I will update on what I remember.

Another tough trading day, although I found that the moves higher seemed to "break out" a little more then they have been for the past few weeks. However to be honest the moves are so small and although it seemed that we went up all day we only managed 0.7% increase.

I was kind of lucky as I got the wrong side of a couple of XLF trades and found myself down $800 combined with a few small losses on other stocks. Notably I jumped on AIG short... I think I must have been the only person to short above $55 and not make $$$. I shorted at a bad place and looking back it was terrible trading. I shorted near the bottom of the initial down move and had to get out on the first re-tracement. I didn't lose much (200?) but it was just plain bad trading and even worse... I didn't re-short again which would have made me $1.50 or so on a pretty easy move.

Didn't lose much on the XLF trades in terms of spread but it was just a matter of trying to find a pull back... which didn't come till later in the day.

I was watching JPM all day... not trading it but just because I knew everyone else was watching it and it was leading the financials up. When I saw it turn over... around 2ish(?) I shorted the XLF... This happened to be the top... $1?.75... shorted 7.5k as I didn't want to have a full position in case I wasn't right. Waited for quite a while... BAC was holding at its high as was the market even though JPM was having a good pull back. This meant I had to wait a while for the trade to pan out. I got a move down but decided that if I had the top then I should hold to see if we could get a serious pull back with people covering before the weekend.

The SPY really held up and the XLF re-traced up to the .72-73 level... I short 3k more to make it a 10k position with a .74 average. I then held this for the move down as BAC broke back down. Covered the half @ .69 and then the other half @ .69 when we didn't even test the .67 level. +500 on the trade.

Probably got the lucky today as it could have been a pretty crappy day. Was happy to make it back to down about 200 and decided that was enough for me and I would accept my loss for the day.

Citi earnings should be interesting next Tuesday. It's trading really weird at the moment. Can't read it at all. It's kind of a mixture of trending and ranging at the moment and I really can't trade it. The moves are much larger then usual and no levels are really safe. I think it will probably go back to normal after earnings.

Tough month but I knew it was probably going to be as my Jan and Feb last year were both negative months. Happy to be green and hopefully add to it next week.

These 3 day weekends are good but I also like trading so I'm mixed emotions about it hahaha

Date: 14/01/2011
Net P&L: ($170)
Month Balance: +$895
 
Well I'm exhausted now. Traded like a fool today. I reverted to a couple of habits that I really thought I had kicked. I think I will talk about the problem rather then the trade.

I picked the following quotes from Mr Livermoore to sum up my trading today... I did the opposite of these

(1) When I am long of stocks it is because my reading of conditions has made me bullish. But you find many people, reputed to be intelligent, who are bullish because they have stocks. I do not allow my possessions or my prepossessions either to do any thinking for me. That is why I repeat that I never argue with the tape. To be angry at the market because it unexpectedly or even illogically goes against you is like getting mad at your lungs because you have pneumonia.

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(2)The only thing to do when a man is wrong is to be right by ceasing to be wrong.

I was fighting the tape on C this morning... I made $600-700 on the long side this morning. Great. But then as it started getting more bearish action I refused to believe it. As it was slowly going down I was getting long and a penny loss. Then taking my position back at the same price (as I thought they were just trying to get me out) only to get out the price below. The tape said bearish and I didn't listen. I then disobeyed the 2nd rule I listed above. I didn't stop and actually went a bit on tilt....urrrrggh. I found myself quickly down $1.1k which was a $1.7k swing.... urrrgghhh.

Also almost more importantly I missed an easy short the whole time and could have made a killing if only I shorted.

However what I did like was I did eventually listen to both rules above and stopped fighting.

I then sat back and waited until I saw something I liked. This was my XLF trade. It tested the ?.55-.54 level a couple times today... the bounce was smaller and I would usually try a short if the .54 broke. Instead I was watching JPM, BAC, GS and C and saw that they really started to uptick... I felt that if things got any worse I would short the .54-.53 levels and hold for lower. But since I saw this action in all 4 stocks I became bullish. I took 10k @ $?.55 added 5K @?.565. I then waited as the move on JPM played out. I got out 5k@.60 and 10k@.61. +$770 on the trade net of fees.

End of day - Really happy that having traded badly I turned it around and finished only slightly negative. I'm actually really happy to lose $$ today as weird as it sounds. What I'm not happy at is my bad trading. I will keep a close eye on this tomorrow.
Date: 18/01/2011
Net P&L: ($300)
Month Balance: +$595
 
Awesome that you figured out the direction and took the trade at the end. You would have killed it today if not for that little flunder. Atleast you ended up just down a little and possibly learned something about your trading.
 
Quote from PropTraderMTL:

Well I'm exhausted now. Traded like a fool today. I reverted to a couple of habits that I really thought I had kicked. I think I will talk about the problem rather then the trade.

I picked the following quotes from Mr Livermoore to sum up my trading today... I did the opposite of these

(1) When I am long of stocks it is because my reading of conditions has made me bullish. But you find many people, reputed to be intelligent, who are bullish because they have stocks. I do not allow my possessions or my prepossessions either to do any thinking for me. That is why I repeat that I never argue with the tape. To be angry at the market because it unexpectedly or even illogically goes against you is like getting mad at your lungs because you have pneumonia.

------------
(2)The only thing to do when a man is wrong is to be right by ceasing to be wrong.

I was fighting the tape on C this morning... I made $600-700 on the long side this morning. Great. But then as it started getting more bearish action I refused to believe it. As it was slowly going down I was getting long and a penny loss. Then taking my position back at the same price (as I thought they were just trying to get me out) only to get out the price below. The tape said bearish and I didn't listen. I then disobeyed the 2nd rule I listed above. I didn't stop and actually went a bit on tilt....urrrrggh. I found myself quickly down $1.1k which was a $1.7k swing.... urrrgghhh.

Also almost more importantly I missed an easy short the whole time and could have made a killing if only I shorted.

However what I did like was I did eventually listen to both rules above and stopped fighting.

I then sat back and waited until I saw something I liked. This was my XLF trade. It tested the ?.55-.54 level a couple times today... the bounce was smaller and I would usually try a short if the .54 broke. Instead I was watching JPM, BAC, GS and C and saw that they really started to uptick... I felt that if things got any worse I would short the .54-.53 levels and hold for lower. But since I saw this action in all 4 stocks I became bullish. I took 10k @ $?.55 added 5K @?.565. I then waited as the move on JPM played out. I got out 5k@.60 and 10k@.61. +$770 on the trade net of fees.

End of day - Really happy that having traded badly I turned it around and finished only slightly negative. I'm actually really happy to lose $$ today as weird as it sounds. What I'm not happy at is my bad trading. I will keep a close eye on this tomorrow.
Date: 18/01/2011
Net P&L: ($300)
Month Balance: +$595
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Nice recovery on the day Prop. Don't beat yourself up too much. Everyone falls victim to what you did. Not that it is excusable but you admitted it happened instead of blaming it on something else. Many cannot do that and that is eventually what depletes an account over time.

Always be on the look out for bad habits creeping into your trading. If you catch them quickly enough, the damage will be minimized. I know it is something I work on everyday.
 
Quote from mastacoli71:

Nice recovery on the day Prop. Don't beat yourself up too much. Everyone falls victim to what you did. Not that it is excusable but you admitted it happened instead of blaming it on something else. Many cannot do that and that is eventually what depletes an account over time.

Always be on the look out for bad habits creeping into your trading. If you catch them quickly enough, the damage will be minimized. I know it is something I work on everyday.
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Yeah thanks. Its funny, I feel like I have discovered that sometimes I'm a lunatic... I never used to realize it but I do now. I also now can recognize the signs of when I start exhibiting the craziness... The point that I'm up to in my trading career now is focusing on taking the medication quick enough. No cure yet but the scientists are working on it as we speak
 
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