Predicting randomness

Quote from Wayne Gibbous:

If I may...

Steve is not proposing that each coin flip ("fair" coin) is not independent. He has already stated that. It's basic stats.

Steve's bet is on runs and the odds of completing runs after the series is started. If given better than fair odds of completing the run, he, or anyone, would take them in a second. That's called an edge.

Also, I believe Steve's viewpoint is from that of what I believe a professional gambler would do. Professional gamblers don't gamble - they put on bets ("risk" in market parlance) - that they know from experience, or math, will have an edge if repeated many times. If a pro gambler noticed something peculiar about a run of numbers, or blackjack wins, or craps passes, or whatever, they would investigate.

Yes, they know the odds and stats and house edge of every game, but when something isn't "right" they might just jump in, figuring the game is rigged. Casinos also investigate happenings that stretch the limits of probability. It costs them money, otherwise.

Well, that's my take. Good trading to all.
Yes but he is still talking about a run of 4 in a row then betting on the 5th, and I quote him here "the odds of my winning the bet jump to 50%"
Well he already had 50% at the start of the streak... and he cant even calculate the odds for 2 50% chances in a row so he is a little hard to take seriously
 
Quote from steve46:

I didn't lose the debate, just my temper...

This is the way I speak and post..

I suggest you put me on ignore..I will do the same for you..

Steve
Ahhh yes, the ignore function for the ignorant, I have no need of it, I didn't lose the debate ;)
 
Yes you did (lose), you were wrong at the outset and you continue to be wrong...insisting doesn't make you right it just makes you ignorant
 
Quote from steve46:

Yes you did (lose), you were wrong at the outset and you continue to be wrong...insisting doesn't make you right it just makes you ignorant

Yeah I'm the one that couldn't calculate 50% divided by 50% and imploded into a mouth frothing expletive deleted tantrum :)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability

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Here is a quote from Wikipedia...While it isn't the last word its good enough for this crowd;

"To give a mathematical meaning to probability, consider flipping a "fair" coin. Intuitively, the probability that heads will come up on any given coin toss is "obviously" 50%; but this statement alone lacks mathematical rigor. Certainly, while we might expect that flipping such a coin 10 times will yield 5 heads and 5 tails, there is no guarantee that this will occur; it is possible, for example, to flip 10 heads in a row. What then does the number "50%" mean in this context?

One approach is to use the law of large numbers. In this case, we assume that we can perform any number of coin flips, with each coin flip being independent—that is to say, the outcome of each coin flip is unaffected by previous coin flips. If we perform N trials (coin flips), and let NH be the number of times the coin lands heads, then we can, for any N, consider the ratio .

As N gets larger and larger, we expect that in our example the ratio will get closer and closer to 1/2. This allows us to "define" the probability of flipping heads as the limit, as N approaches infinity, of this sequence of ratios:


In actual practice, of course, we cannot flip a coin an infinite number of times; so in general, this formula most accurately applies to situations in which we have already assigned an a priori probability to a particular outcome (in this case, our assumption that the coin was a "fair" coin). The law of large numbers then says that, given Pr(H), and any arbitrarily small number å, there exists some number n such that for all N > n,


In other words, by saying that "the probability of heads is 1/2", we mean that, if we flip our coin often enough, eventually the number of heads over the number of total flips will become arbitrarily close to 1/2; and will then stay at least as close to 1/2 for as long as we keep performing additional coin flips."

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I said this a couple of times ("in the short term ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN"), but you were busy with your head up your ass..
I realize that this won't make a difference to YOU, but for the rest of us, it certainly does finish the "debate"...Maybe you should try holding your breath and jumping up and down..:D
 
Quote from Wayne Gibbous:

If I may...

Steve is not proposing that each coin flip ("fair" coin) is not independent. He has already stated that. It's basic stats.

Steve's bet is on runs and the odds of completing runs after the series is started. If given better than fair odds of completing the run, he, or anyone, would take them in a second. That's called an edge.

Also, I believe Steve's viewpoint is from that of what I believe a professional gambler would do. Professional gamblers don't gamble - they put on bets ("risk" in market parlance) - that they know from experience, or math, will have an edge if repeated many times. If a pro gambler noticed something peculiar about a run of numbers, or blackjack wins, or craps passes, or whatever, they would investigate.

Yes, they know the odds and stats and house edge of every game, but when something isn't "right" they might just jump in, figuring the game is rigged. Casinos also investigate happenings that stretch the limits of probability. It costs them money, otherwise.

Well, that's my take. Good trading to all.

Yes Wayne, that is in fact my approach.

Now there is only one reason for me to continue with this and that is to show how you go from a theoretical understanding to the practical application

In order to do that you have to add risk management (stop loss calc) and betting or more accurately bet sizing. To arrive at a stop loss algo I suggest people check out the text "Mathematics of Technical Analysis" by Clifford Sherry. For bet sizing, I use a "Half Kelley" system as outlined by Dr. Bill Ziemba...
 
I can almost see the vein popping out on his forehead :)

But it's good to see you using someone else's math, yours wasn't even grade school level
 
Quote from Wayne Gibbous:

If I may...

Steve is not proposing that each coin flip ("fair" coin) is not independent. He has already stated that. It's basic stats.

Steve's bet is on runs and the odds of completing runs after the series is started. If given better than fair odds of completing the run, he, or anyone, would take them in a second. That's called an edge.

Also, I believe Steve's viewpoint is from that of what I believe a professional gambler would do. Professional gamblers don't gamble - they put on bets ("risk" in market parlance) - that they know from experience, or math, will have an edge if repeated many times. If a pro gambler noticed something peculiar about a run of numbers, or blackjack wins, or craps passes, or whatever, they would investigate.

Yes, they know the odds and stats and house edge of every game, but when something isn't "right" they might just jump in, figuring the game is rigged. Casinos also investigate happenings that stretch the limits of probability. It costs them money, otherwise.

Well, that's my take. Good trading to all.

Yes Wayne, that is in fact my approach.

Now there is only one reason for me to continue with this and that is to show how you go from a theoretical understanding to the practical application

In order to do that you have to add risk management (stop loss calc) and betting or more accurately bet sizing. To arrive at a stop loss algo I suggest people check out the text "Mathematics of Technical Analysis" by Clifford Sherry. For bet sizing, I use a modified Kelly Criterion. Here is a reference

http://www.leggmason.com/funds/knowledge/mauboussin/Mauboussin_on_Strategy_020106.pdf
 
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