Post Prop-Trader Life - Vol. 2

Well..I really don't have a clue about the industry. Most of my research is through the web, talking to bankers, traders and books.
So here goes:
U...
might want to get an MBA. Duke offers a distance learning MBA.
might want to go Carnegie Mellon and get a financial engineering degree. Quant traders are in demand at hedge funds.
try and get CTA funding from futures brokers like Elocal, Gelber group, Vankar trading etc.
Start your own fund.
Interview with hedge funds.
Ask other traders to back you.
Hire, back and train traders who will (if you do a good job) easily grow your capital.
Check out some prop firms in chicago. They are a LOT more responsive to guys w/out ivy on their resume and prop trading backgrounds.
Geneva Trading, FCT, IDT, Group 1, Botta, DRW trading, SMW trading, goldenberg heymeir all are looking for people the last I heard. You've got lots of options. And doesn't that Metoxx guy have a fund?
 
Originally posted by goldenarm
Ahh...the naivete of the inexperienced. I was bright-eyed and had visions of mansions and Porsches and Easy Street when I started trading. Then I learned the truth and hopefully you will too! The glory days of daytrading died in 2001...
More...

LOL. You learned the "truth". Dude, you are the one being naive. What did you expect? The dollars to just start rolling in?? If you think everybody that starts trading thinks that way, you are way wrong.

I can understand that you feel a little disillusioned, seeings as today's market is no 99/00. But so what! You don't need a 99/00 to make money daytrading, THAT is the "truth". If YOU, yourself, can't make money..well, that's up to you to do something about. It's sounds to me as though you've already given up the ghost.
 
Silverbllet,

Since you quoted me in your post, I'll take it your reply was somewhat directed towards me.


Most of you misunderstood me. I want to trade my entire life as well, but not day trading. I would someday like to work in a futures pit for instance...its just something Ive always wanted. Yeah, we all have career goals other than make money. I am in my mid twenties, and there is no fucking way I will be daytrading my entire life.

So, you want to work in the futures pit and do what exactly? You mentioned you don't wanna daytrade, so I assume you're not going to the pit to trade.
That would be one interesting career move. Daytrader to ...er..a runner? Or order entry clerk?


Im talking about pursing the big big big money....the eight figures that so few can get: but why not try for it at some point?keep educating yourself (CFA, licenses, etc), and use day trading as a stepping stone to other trading jobs if you can (and if you want). Maybe you can start your own trading firm someday.

I see. The big BIG money. Working in the futures pit is gonna help you do that how exactly?

Dude, there are very, very few JOBS that pay 8 figures. And very, very few of THOSE jobs are "trading" jobs.

One of my career goals is definitely to start my own company...there is no way I would throw that chance away becuase 'daytradings cool and you dont have to deal with bosses and shit'.

If your goal is to start your own company...why waste time with daytrading? Daytrading doesn't really teach you any skills that are directly transferable to running a company...
I think your time would be better spent learning the craft of sales/marketing and managing and motivating people.

Do you really think that people just daytrade cos it's "cool"? LOL.
And have you ever worked for "bosses and shit"? I have. I had a great time doing it. But I can definitely understand that after many years of it (15+) how a person could tire of it.


Grow up, realize that when you are 45 daytrading may not even exist somehow. It is a great job now, but dont rest on your laurels, because the occupation may not be around for ever, or you may hate it down the road.

*shaking my head* That's weird reasoning. Funny how someone that wants to work in the FUTURES PIT is warning me that daytrading may not even exist somehow.. What is gonna happen for daytrading not to exist? Is there gonna be a ban on people being able to exit a position on the same day as they enter it? Are commissions gonna skyrocket so much that it becomes too difficult? How the hell is daytrading gonna cease to exist?

And that bit about not resting on my laurels... I could apply that logic to ANYTHING... "don't get too used to working in the pits, you may hate it down the road", "don't get too used to eating fried chicken, you may hate it down the road", "don't get too used to your wife, you may hate her down the road"..
 
It sounds to me like you are bored with the current environment and just want to find a new way to skin the same cat...There were alot of threads on starting funds, CTA's, etc about 3-4 months ago...Seemed like a sign of the times, when the volatility died back in Feb and March and everyone was scrambling to figure out another way to stay in business and increase their payouts with fees, etc...

I hear where you are coming from about the desire to get into the big leagues...I think that is a long term goal, however, and the process takes years...You just build it up over time...If you are looking to get into that side of the business and are interested in futures, then you should probably just start trading futures, keep immaculate records, submit them to the governing agencies which can certify these records...Do this for about 2 years with a six figure account and return a decent sum and you will get some offers...I have seen it happen before, if that is your goal...From there the sky is the limit, and I honestly believe that...If you have good numbers, you are just like a professional athlete, the marketplace will assign you a certain value, and that value will be in the form of assets to manage...There are too many success stories(also many failures, but not my point)...

I also think that if you are not a pure daytrader or daytrading and scalping all day long is not what you are after, then you have to make a change...There are a million different combinations of ways to make money or lose money...Its just a personal decision...
 
yeah. I think a lot of people are confused a little bit about the institutional world and how it actually works.

Having came from that world- both sell & buy-side of things, it's NOT as glamorous as you think. Yes, you do get a nice salary and bonus at the end of the year if all goes well. And DON'T expect to rake in 7-8figures or whatever unless you are pretty darn SENIOR. Like partners or MD(managing director) level or CIO(chief investment officer) or Sr Portfolio Manager.

But if you are good and solid you can easily get low 6 figure salary year in and year out.

But now the question is this:

1) Would you rather work like that in a very structured environment (basically a corporation or big private fund) and get security of salary, bonus, benefits but a definite cap on salary unless you da one?

2) Work in a prop trading environment and do your own things and answer to no one and get a cut(a big cut) of profits?

There's no right or wrong answer. It's all personality. It's not one is better than the other.

Now to answer the other questions about daytrading then moving into the institutional world - I think highly unlikely path. It's usually teh other way around. Ex-institutional people who got "bored" with corporate politics or wants to be independent and have a strategy end up going to prop trading route. But not the other way around.

Do you know why? Because the strategy used for daytrading is actually NOT very applicable in an institutional environment. If you have a few hundred millions of billions in case of the large funds, you CAN'T SCALP! you can move in and out for 10-25cents move. It just doesn't work that way when you get that big. And now you know why it's so hard for the average fund manager to even earn 20% on $1B.

-trader99
 
Moving from independent or prop trading to institutional rarely happens. Usually its the other way 'round.

If you really want one of the few institutional jobs you either need a contact for an "in" and an MBA from a top ten university - with top honors - coupled with a few years of related experience and licenses .... Well you get the picture: its very difficult to obtain these positions without connections and ample credentials.

The Future: Who knows ? Financial services are far different than when I started at the Merc in 1978. The world changes every few years: You will most likely be surprised at what you are doing in 20 years.

If you enjoy trading as an independent - and make money at it - then just do it and take your profits and start new ventures. The future will take care of itself .....
 
I have also come from the institutional side and it is very rare to make the type of move you are seeking to. Especially now when the street is flooded with out of work traders that have sell side experience.

Your best chance would be to get a low paying job at a hedge fund as an execution trader (there are posts from time to time) and prove your worth. Try the employment section of Hedgeworld.com.

As for trading in a futures pit - whose money do you plan on trading? If its yours, you will lquickly earn that the "locals" are the ultimate daytraders/scalpers.
 
Originally posted by Bond Trader
I have also come from the institutional side and it is very rare to make the type of move you are seeking to. Especially now when the street is flooded with out of work traders that have sell side experience.

Your best chance would be to get a low paying job at a hedge fund as an execution trader (there are posts from time to time) and prove your worth. Try the employment section of Hedgeworld.com.

As for trading in a futures pit - whose money do you plan on trading? If its yours, you will lquickly earn that the "locals" are the ultimate daytraders/scalpers.
More...

I wouldn't recommend the pits as a long term place. I know people been saying it will be all electronics for a while and the pit is still there. THe pit might be there for another 10-15yrs? Or less depending on how fast technology evolve and other regulatory issues,etc.
 
What sell side institutional desk were you on?

I worked on the sell side briefly then moved to the buy-side on the institutional fund/quant side of things where I spent most of my career until about a year ago that I decided to do this prop trading thing.

Intraday noise and execution are tough things to master but I think eventually I'll be able to do it right...

-99
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top