Quote from LondonUSTrader:
I wasn't going to post on this thread again. The reason being when dealing with people like Mschey you have to understand he is always right. And the more you respond critically the more he will escalate the personal attacks.
Planet Mars, the God of War ? Just today I almost decapitated a writer I work with for being a 37 year old toddler. The anger will subside........"can't we ALL just get along?" tee hee......
Thanks to all of you for the comments. I knew virtually nothing about position sizing and now there's been a great big dump of homework for the "in" box of market education. Ugh......
Position sizing
- Thread starter Trish
- Start date
I don't know holy... looks like he's got you pegged.
Your ignorance on inverse correlations and risk and your comments comparing leverage to small business loans show your naivete as well. You might have had some success with position trading (maybe), but clearly, as you've stated, trading has not been your main source of income. So, lecturing Mike about risk is most definitely overstepping your bounds. Also, saying you would trade even if you weren't profitable doesn't make any sense... psycho analysis or not, people who trade as a career are trading for profits. Of course trading is challenging, but the dialogue that is interesting on this board is by other traders who have acheived or have that same goal in mind.
I'm not trying to be rude, just calling a spade a spade. If you feel the need to call him arrogant and rude because london starts off being rude and arrogant then you have to look at the reasons why you're taking london's side. Looking at the convo I see it's because you guys' share similar views towards trading... which from what I've seen so far, doesn't hold much experience or value.
Also, to london, you say everyone deserves respect and politeness doesn't cost anything. That's crap. I agree with Mike, you earn respect and it was you who started with the unpoliteness... so you reap what you sow. Disrespecting a well respected trader in the community does not earn you respect, and demanding it from him after feeling the backlash is just plain hypocritical and extremely weak. So do yourself a favor and quit acting like a fool.
Btw, Mike is the real deal. I trade with guys who know him personally and he's always talked about in the best of light and his contributions to this board have been valuable. So, it's annoying to have neophytes such as yourselves join the discussion and start with the attitudes and the low value posts. Do everyone who has an actual interest in the topic a favor: cut the crap.
Yes, I am a businessman, not a person who is trading for a living. I have been a successful swing trader for 8 years. Inverse correlations is a concept I have never been acquainted with but that has not limited my success. If you check my posts you will see that I have NEVER given opinions on day trading. I entered this thread giving an opinion on position sizing and risk. It happens to be an opinion shared by many so I don't think it is necessary to get anyone's approval to express it.
I said I would trade even though I was not profitable because if you enjoy something and have a genuine interest in it, you will eventually find a way to be profitable. My only goal in trading is to beat the yearly returns of what a professional money manager would create. That is all the time my business demands would allow at the time, and I have accomplished that goal for the past 8 years. At this point in my life I have absolutely no reason to trade full time, and I don't need the money, but it is still VERY possible I will trade full time, and still not need the money. I'm sorry, but the lack of need for money still won't make me any less determined as a trader, and I certainly don't need ANYONE telling me about how much I am losing in opportunity costs. I created the opportunity, I chose the risk level that was comfortable for me. I don't give a rat's ass that I could have made 6 million instead of 3 million. Woulda, shoulda and Coulda are not in my vocabulary.
You say he is the real deal. The real deal compared to what? I'm the real deal too, but compared to bill gates I'm a peon. Everything is relative. There are always people who will know more than all of us on all subjects. Knowledge is neverending. I say 5 years doesn't make an expert in anything, and it certainly doesn't give him the right to walk all over people and make assumptions about their trading ability. Telling someone they have a losers mentality when they know nothing about their ability is ludicrous. People could say I have a losers mentality in business because I always plan for the worst. There is absolutely nothing wrong with planning for the worst. When you plan for the worst you don't choke should the worst happen. It certainly doesn't make the worst happen. If anything it gives confidence that you can make it through the worst case scenario.
The best job in the world is doing something you love to do and getting the added bonus of being paid for it. I do lots of charity work too, but alas I don't get paid for it. Fortunately, that doesn't stop me from helping people. I give back more than you will ever know. I even gave back when I had nothing. Giving back is a responsiblity that I totally understand.
i dont think the guy meant anythin' bad at all and i frankly agree on most of what he said. i mean, take for example reardoniz trade on dakt; u might think it was a huge gamble but he made a killin' on that bet and even if it didn't pan out his loss wouldn't have affected much his acct. that's the big money mentality and it pays off most times. if u are after serious bucks u gotta take risks, there's just no 2 ways about it and even if u take a big hit it's not big deal, u took a chance and if u are profitable overall u gonna make up for it. if u are not aimin' at pushin' it to the max u got not much of a place in this biz imo; tradin' conservatively dont make sense, this mkt doesn't offer easy money and u are always exposed to catastrophe risks anyways so why not push it. also leverage your butzz is perfectly fine on the best setups, many trends are so good it is wise to trow your all acct into 'em. if u are wrong u'll be proven to be so when the trendline is violated and can get with relatively minor losses.
I haven't seen a "get rich quick scheme" that was legal and worked consistently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doubling your trading account every 3 1/2 to 5 years relatively safely. There are very simple systems that will allow you to do this. I've never understood the reason for the big rush. I guess that is why I haven't day traded yet.
Why? I'm not smart enough to know which trades will work in advance. I know what the chart should look like, and which stocks probably have a greater probablity of success, but there are no guarantees.
The market can make you very humble quickly. I risk the least amount of money I can to reach my profit level. Hell, there have been years I met my profit objectives in 4 months while never trading more than half of my account. I just quit trading altogether until later in the year. Opportunity costs cut both ways as does leverage.
Yeah, yeah... the 2% rule, hehe. So classic. Of course you don't need anyone's approval to express that "opinion". I wasn't referring to that, I said you overstepped your bounds when you started lecturing someone who actually trades for a living and understands risk, about what risk is in trading. I'm sorry, the 2% rule is the most generic valueless thing without a context. You gave no context, hard to learn from that. Not that you would be expected to give any, being someone who hasn't made this a career.
That's great you don't need anyone telling you about opportunity costs, but unfortunately that's a huge part of trading. It might not be the case in other businesses with little competition, but in trading the competition is fierce. You need to push it by definition. Think banking or agriculture, if you aren't leveraged to the maximum of what you're business model can take you go under. That's great you made your money, so this is a hobby for you... it isn't for a lot of us. What the discussion was turning into before you, london, and sosa piped in, was defining that model and understanding risk in that context. Mike was trying to make a point of that before he was stupidly called silly and also after. Btw, mschey's comments were totally appropriate for the attitude and content he got from london. All he did was try and point out what he thought wasn't a befit mindset for a winning trader to have. Since you feel it's ok to express opinions on matters you aren't an expert in, I would think you wouldn't be so peversely annoyed at him giving some insight into a winning traders beliefs/psychology... seeing as how he is a winning trader.
I said he was the real deal compared to someone like you yes. Someone who doesn't trade for a living but talks as if he does, lecturing people who do on what it's all about. You call him arrogant, I'd say that's about as arrogant and disillusioned as you can get. Bringing up relativism is a pretty weak argument as well, but hey I guess we're all trading gods next to a monkey... if that justifies your arguments and gives you more confidence, then have at it. Personally, I think you and london owe him an apology, but I guess you could just change your nicks as well.