POLL: What is the World's Most Evil Religion?

Quote from bungrider:



all the engineering and energy shit was going on in europe when the US was still sorting its shit out...during the late 1800s and early 1900s...mostly in france, germany and the UK...

history: until the crusades, most scientific progress was actually made in regions that today are islamic countries. areas such as iraq ("cradle of civilization") spawned the first modern societies.
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Actually, much of the industrial revolution began in the US, not to mention some great political contributions.

While Egypt and present day Iraq were where some of the earliest advanced civilizations began, "most" scientific progress up to the crusades came from Greece and Rome. Yes, Algebra was advanced in the Middle East, and early Egypt offered incredible things thousands of years ago, but if you are going to quantify where "most" scientific advancements came from up to the crusades, I don't see how you can credit anyone more than the Greeks (not Christian then of course) and Romans (who for the majority of their great ancient history were also not Christian).
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:

"""if you want to drag islam into this debate as well, most people in islamic nations (including again, iraq until we attacked them, and also UAE, Saudi Arabia) enjoy a very high standard of living."""

Bung, would you care to retract this fallacy please?

Some interesting facts in this article:

- Muslims account for almost a quarter of mankind, their share of the global wealth is less than 6%.
- Nearly two-thirds of the world's poorest, those who live on under $2 a day, are Muslim.
- Not a single Muslim country figures among the world's 30 richest nations
- Of the 5,000 world-class brand products, not one is produced in a Muslim country
- Leaving aside oil, caviar and Persian carpets, the 53 members of the Organization of Islamic Conference have nothing to offer the global market
- Of the 30 active conflicts in the world today, 28 concern Muslim governments and/or communities.
- In the past two decades at least 2.5 million people have died in the wars fought within or between Muslim states
- Two-thirds of political prisoners are held in Muslim countries, which also carry out 80% of all executions in the world.
- Muslims also account for nearly 80% of all the world's refugees
- All but one of the world's last military regimes are in the Muslim world


Solution to Islam's crisis lies within


Amir Taheri
National Post
For decades the big question in the world of Islam has been: "Who did it to us?"

Recalling the losses of Grenada and Kazan in the 15th century, the colonization of most Muslim lands by Western empires in the 19th, and the almost total marginalization of the Islamic world in the 20th, rulers and intellectuals from Jakarta to Casablanca, and passing by Tehran and Cairo, asked the same question.

The common belief was that Islam was the victim of some vast conspiracy by the "Christian" powers, manipulated by "devious Jews" who feared the message of Muhammad, and were determined to prevent Islam from spreading to the entire universe.

The conspiracy theory is still strong in the Muslim world. But the shock of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks against the United States seems to have encouraged a fresh attempt at understanding the causes of Islam's current crisis.

Many Muslims are now asking: "What have we done to ourselves?" Some of the issues raised are certainly important and must be debated.
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Don't forget that the UN, among others, has offered reports that demonstrate that democracy, and even teh appreciation of democracy and human rights, is greatly lacking in the Islamic world. This means that even developing numerous STABLE democracies in this region will be extremely difficult and likely to fail.
 
Quote from darkhorse:





what i find most amusing about these debates is not the disagreement- intelligent people have the right to disagree and do so all the time.

the funny part is how so many atheists on this board assume that theists are intellectually dishonest and then strain their arms patting themselves on the back for pointing it out.



Hmmm, it appears to me the bible is full of holes, yet there are intelligent people who believe in it who are also capable of open mindedness and rational argument. how can this be? either

a) all those seemingly intelligent people are really quite stupid or "brainwashed"
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All your points (except that above) were astute and incredibly well put. Many were on my mind as well, although I could never have offered them nearly as well as you. That said, otherwise intelligent people, even en masse, often do and believe stupid things. There is groupthink, there is the generally known insanity of crowds (trading floors, for example, where otherwise intelligent people get carried away emotionally and do stupid things). And there are examples such as Nazi Europe, where many otherwise intelligent people accepted obviously flawed (abolutely stupid for that matter) and amazingly evil arguments. So, while all your other points were excellent, your ad populum fallacy is not.
 
Quote from axeman:



Nice either/or fallacy. Your artificially limiting the choices here.
There are many other choices as well.

For example:

c) These are intelligent people who have deeply ingrained feel good
beliefs implanted in them from childhood which are part of their
culture which they refuse to drop, even though they contradict
their intellectual side.

d) These are intelligent people with an evolutionary mechanism
built-in to prevent them from acknowledging their own final death
without an afterlife, which prevents extreme depression
(Yes, this is a real hypothesis I have researched )

The fact is... it may very well be a valid case that intelligent
people can have "areas" of belief which they have no expertise in.
I think this is quite obvious in fact. Im an expert in computer science
but a complete idiot when it comes to art history for example.

Using your logic, this makes me an idiot. :)

Fact is... you can over all be quite intelligent, and completely clueless
when it comes to silly god beliefs, so lets not pretend some
complex explaination which leads to the fact that there is a
better reason is REQUIRED. It is not.
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Perhaps this was a better way of stating it. :) iPerhaps this was a better way of stating it. :) I do think, however, that his other points were relevant and meaningful, if not comprehensive n addressing the issues being debated.
 
Quote from Specul8r:

Do any of you guys actually trade for a living? just curious...
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I was going to wait longer to point this out, but this is probably a good time to do it given your post. Gecko, Axeman are guilty of being fooled by Guardian Angel. It is extremely clear from his arguments and writing style and that Guardian Angel is Thunderbolt from last year, and it was clear then that he does not trade. So you guys have been duped into wasting many, many precious minutes rehashing the exact same argument with the same close-minded idiot from last year (with ElCubana chiming in occasionally, as he is now too). The only difference is that at least last year Darkhorse was active during most of the discussion.
 
Quote from axeman:

Ahhh... I see 777 is back with his hocus pocus drivel.

Still believe your the only guy in the world who can
correctly communicate with god via faith? :D LMAO.

You simply make no sense.

Weve been through this many times.
You BELIEVE you have found god through your magical
powers of FAITH, and yet have NO WAY to prove that
any of this nonsense exists outside of your own mind.

It is for that reason that I frankly dont give a crap about
what I can only assume is your imagination.


PS. If your still hearing voices in your head, please see
a shrink. And if your god voices tell you to shoot people,
at least consider that maybe its not god after all :D


peace

axeman
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The failed theist is often angry due to his failure with the practice of faith.

Rather than simply conclude that his former faith didn't work for him, he feels a need to prove that his failure with faith was not his failure, but that the practice of faith is categorically wrong as it relates to knowing God. The need extends beyond his own life, as a means of self defense and denial of his failure with faith. He must necessarily project his current belief systems about theism on to others.

This is commonly known as a sour grapes mentality.

Anyone can see your anger, which is irrational and not based in real time events. It is baggage from your past.

"It is for that reason that I frankly dont give a crap about
what I can only assume is your imagination."

Yes, you can only assume, as you don't have knowledge of my experience as being valid and true or not.

Were you able to let go of your anger and resentments toward theism due to your own personal failure, you could simply live and let live.

All you need to do is admit that you were a failure with faith....as clearly you were not a success with the practice and discipline of faith, and then you can let go of the rage you feel toward those who do have success with faith.
 
Quote from CONTRARIAN:



You have shy away from these topics in your ranting and raving.
All you have demonstrated is that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot and that you have all the answers but you are not that smart. If you were you would be able to explain the origins of the universe. Many an intellectual has taken a stab at that topic. However you have simply dismissed the origins topic as "I don't know and that' o.k. with me" as if that somehow negates the fact that you don't know it all and its o.k. for you but not for others with opposing arguments. How hypocritical.
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How is he being hypocritical? And are you saying that to be smart one must know the origins of the universe? If so, you have invented a definition that would prove that no human is, or even could be, "smart." And you are making the stupid assertion that if someone accepts their limitations, but does not accept explanations that seem to them fanciful, that they are lost or are hypocrites. So if I can't find my keys and don't know where they are, but I don't accept that aliens flew down and took them, does that mean I am not "smart" because I don't know where my keys are and that I am a hypocrite because I don't accept the alien explanation?
 
You are so completely clueless, and your argument so
obviously flawed, I wonder why I even take a minute
to reply.

You seem incapable of learning, but I will state once again,
in hopes that this will sink into your head for once:

I do NOT believe faith is flawed simply because it did NOT work for me.

OK?!?!?! Comprende??? This is not a sour grapes issue.
You like to believe this because it makes you feel better or something.

The REASON I think your faith is a complete joke is NOT because
it didnt work for me 777, but because you have been
CONSISTENTLY incapable of providing even the most
miniscule shred of evidence that your faith works at all,
OUTSIDE of your own imagination.

It simply is not testable, falsifiable or verifiable by ANYONE
outside of yourself, and therefore no better than
a childhood invisible friend.

So stop pretending already that this has ANYTHING to do
with my failure with faith. It simply is not relevant.

Im sure you will go right back to your favorite fallacy of
poisoning the well, and will continue to falsely claim that I simply
believe faith is bullshit because it didnt work for ME. LOL :D
( As if you can read my mind! LOL )

But then again... I dont expect much from you anyway :D

There...enough time wasted with silly theists.

Time for some TV and hitting the sack.


Cutten is doing such a wonderful job of slaughtering the
theists here, I am no longer needed.

Bye bye 777. Sleep tight with your magical power fantasies
and your invisible friends :D


peace

axeman


Quote from ARogueTrader:



The failed theist is often angry due to his failure with the practice of faith.

Rather than simply conclude that his former faith didn't work for him, he feels a need to prove that his failure with faith was not his failure, but that the practice of faith is categorically wrong as it relates to knowing God. The need extends beyond his own life, but as a means of self defense and denial of the his failure must necessarily project his current belief systems about theism on to others.

This is commonly known as a sour grapes mentality.

Anyone can see your anger, which is irrational and not based in real time events. It is baggage from your past.

"It is for that reason that I frankly dont give a crap about
what I can only assume is your imagination."

Yes, you can only assume, as you don't have knowledge of my experience as being valid and true or not.

Were you able to let go of your anger and resentments toward theism due to your own personal failure, you could simply live and let live.

All you need to do is admit that you were a failure with faith....as clearly you were not a success with the practice and discipline of faith, and then you can let go of the rage you feel toward those who do have success with faith.
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LMAOO!!!!! Well put!


It takes intellectual honesty to ADMIT you dont know
every answer to the universe.

apparently, SOME theists, MUST have an answer to everything
no matter how ridiculous it is. :D


Ok...gotta get to bed Missed the Boat....but your posts
are too funny. :D


peace

axeman



Quote from I Missed Boat:



How is he being hypocritical? And are you saying that to be smart one must know the origins of the universe? If so, you have invented a definition that would prove that no human is, or even could be, "smart." And you are making the stupid assertion that if someone accepts their limitations, but does not accept explanations that seem to them fanciful, that they are lost or are hypocrites. So if I can't find my keys and don't know where they are, but I don't accept that aliens flew down and took them, does that mean I am not "smart" because I don't know where my keys are and that I am a hypocrite because I don't accept the alien explanation?
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