POLL: The repercussions of a US attack on Iraq

[max401]

Quote from wild:

Quote from max401

You're a Pasteaholic.

well ... what are you then ?

Quote from max401:

Hah! You're forgetting my own vote! I find that some kind soul has already deemed me "normal." So perhaps I'll keep my vote for a tiebreaker. Gotta wonder how many votes are RS7 aliases though; he has at least two; by his own admission.

In any event, after finding himself trapped in his usual tall tales, ol' RS7 was whining to Baron in late October. Baron solicited my viewpoint and this is my response:
(I might add that there are now quite a few other "RS7 - Legend in My Own Mind" claims made since then.)

10-28-2002

Baron,

Thank you for willing to take an objective viewpoint and I apologize if my actions cause you to waste your valuable time on this petty matter, although I'm sure RS7 considers this situation to be of some massive significance. It should be noted that most of my interaction with this individual is limited to the less topical "Chit Chat" forum.

The veracity of any poster would not be large an issue to anyone in the normal course of events, God knows how many inaccurate scribblings and outright lies occur on the internet. RS7 constantly weaves his personal life into his commentary. He seems to be yet another of those tedious poster’s whose favorite words are “I” and “me.”

However, in RS7's case, his constant writing about himself and his many, many accomplishments have worn thin. For example:

"Dated a famous movie star before she was a star."

"Played guitar at the Fillmore East with the Allman Bros."

"Introduced Greg Allman to Cher"

The coup de grace is a sore subject with me. I find it difficult to tolerate “combat” stories that on their very face cannot be believed. In his own words, this is RS7's,:

"I was involved in a criminal endeavor on behalf of our Department of State. Hell, we were just tourists with cameras. And weapons for hunting. And fine press credentials too. I was technically NOT sent there to be "in combat" and even though I was shot, I never knew by whom. I have a scar, but don't know who pulled the trigger. I was captured and held prisoner along with 4 others. We were kept in a "tiger cage" (covered hole in the ground), where we froze at night and cooked during the day. Each day of that was far worse than a month in any american prison, I assure you. Our "guards" were 15 or 16 year old boys with weapons they did not know how to use. I myself did not look down and see my leg missing. But I did see it happen to someone that was no more than 20 yards from me. And I did see the look on his face. I see it still."

Is this story believable? I think not. And one must draw the distinction between the “I made this much money in the market...” proclamation and the above, which I believe cuts into a sacred area of any true patriot of this country.

So, have I “bashed” RS7 on this issue? Well, I certainly have challenged his veracity. Frankly, I find it compelling to inquire when he makes other gaffes that don’t match his previous declarations of fame. In his last episode, a few questions to him and it turns out, as near as I can tell, essentially he doesn’t quite remember what year he graduated from college.

The other bothersome item for me is that of multiple aliases. I don't know whether you can check IP addresses and granted that doesn't necessarily prove anything, but I am suspicious of "RS7" and "outlaw" as being one and the same. RS7's excuse for having been caught red handed using the wrong alias to post with is that “outlaw” was at his house using his computer one evening and happened to leave it signed on to the “outlaw” account unbeknownst to RS7. Certainly possible, but highly unlikely considering the posting times at the same time of day for each, the incredulous background story he tells which in no way matches the content of the posts between these two and the fact that the “outlaw” ID never posted again after the gaffe.

Baron, I guess the bottom line is that I think RS7 is a professional liar and consequently I think that in the course of events a certain amount of inquiry is permissible. You will note that generally that I do not use diminutives, name calling or severely profane language in my posts, unlike RS7. Surprisingly, he started a thread which condemns those very actions. I responded with several of his quotes reflecting his own profanity, it got clipped, however. Yes, I’m sure that I have crossed the line in a post or three, but generally I state my conclusions as strictly my own opinion.

Part of the message traffic with RS7 involves his many meanderings and deviations to my simple inquiries. His vehement replies usually denouncing my suggestions that something is amiss, simply require another response. RS7 claims that I am obsessed with "bashing" him, to you and most certainly in his posts. When a liar is trapped by the very trail of facts he has left behind for all to see, that is about the only offense he has.

A final observation: Don Bright takes a tremendous amount of abuse on these pages, like the proverbial duck, it runs right off his back and he singlehandedly takes on any and all comers. Should RS7 be any different?

Max401

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11787&perpage=6&pagenumber=3

WoW! Now that's good pasting material; however, flattery will get you nowhere.

 

[wild]

Quote from ElCubano:

Thats the problem nobody but you cares if RS7 has lied or not on a internet forum (which is a place where no one lies)....you have become obssesed and you look like a fool....

My vote was deleted..but I will put it up for you again....you are a spineless spin queen, nothing would bring me greater joy than to be able to piss on your grave........

 

[traderfut2000]

Fair enough, I agree with all of your points. The only thing is that you suggest those hate groups are just promoting peacefully their ideas. It's like if you forgot about your history.

Look Optional, I am not what you think. I do not hate the USA, and I even believe that the american achived great things and I thank them for that. The point where I differ with most americans is that America is far from being perfect.

I cannot accept your critics about germany and the Nazi regim if you forgot about the bloody history of your own country. Indians, Black, Asians (especially chinese) and even Jews were persecuted in the US. I am not talking about the foreign policy of the USA that perpetrated surely more dead in the world than the second world war. I am from the third world, and I know that many good men were killed for promoting democracy and human rights in their own country and were usually killed by CIA agents..

I am basing my view on facts and not on a manichean vision of the world the good and the bad. I even think that you americans have nothing to do in all those crimes, since, somewhat you are the victims of a system...

Quote from OPTIONAL777:



Do I really live in the USA?

Funny question.

Are there groups of people, splinter groups who are hateful?

Yes, it is allowed under the protection of our constitution to have "feelings" of hate.

It is allowed to have marches and meetings in which hate is celebrated.

It is not allowed that they act on that hate in a manner that breaks the law, and if they do they are punished accordingly.

I would much rather have those who suffer from hating others be able to have their groups openly as a means to express their feelings, than have them underground festering and gaining strength. Having the groups openly organize and act allows the proper authorities to monitor their behavior, and respond accordingly if their feeling turn to destructive actions.

It is when the KKK and other hate mongers march and express themselves publicly, that other Americans can see by contrast the stupidity of their belief systems compared to a normal and reasonable doctrine of living.

It is a proven fact psychologically that allowing a child to throw his tantrum on the floor, as long as he is not violent against others, is healthier than stopping him from doing so and trying to control his rage and anger.

Let them get it out of their system, as trying to control or stop the "feelings" of anger, frustration, bigotry, hatred, religious intolerance doesn't work.

If you allow a child to throw his tantrum, yet don't respond with fear or control, just allow the process to take place by observing with compassion and understanding, the child gets it out of his system and normalizes their emotional state.

It is when you stifle their feelings that problems begin and grow.

I wish there was a way to force people to be loving, understanding, tolerant, accepting, etc., but there is no way to do that.

I favor allowing them to express their feelings, as long as it is done within the confines of the law.

It is better in my opinion to have to listen to their bile in the short run, than to try to silence it in the long run.

 

[traderfut2000]

You are certainly the most pevert person I have ever seen.
So Wild never said he is a nazy and because he said I don't care you're accusing me a nazy he is a NAzy????

Something is wrong here or is your logic a bit distorted???

Concerning the USA, I am fed up to hear the same thing, we saved the world and all that bullshit!!!! You won the war (period) and it was your interest to do it. Not to save the jews. You did not give a fuck of human rights, democracy etc.. you had superior interets on your agenda which were world supremacy, and it had nothing to do with democracy and human rights???

Why do I say that?? Because your allies France and Great Britain were the biggest criminal on the planet. They colonised numerous countries and what was reproched to the Nazis was also done by them.. and the whole planet knows it. So you did not save the planet but you helped your friends (period).

Your foreign and even domestic policy shows it. Outside, all the main dictators were supported by you and democrats killed by you. Mossadech and Lumumba comes to my mind but there are many others.

On the domestic front, the black people were still under discriminatory rules and they had to wait the 60's in order to be considered "normal citizens"...

Quote from stu:


I can't say I'm suprised by your now obvious determination to try and agitate, but what was the point of that post?

Unless what you read is selectively turned over in your mind to mean the opposite of what is written, how do you conclude that it is I who called Wild a Nazi?
And just why would you do that?? Let's see...

Is it because you only want to follow and believe one slant on any point of view that is different from your own and that a differing opinion is always automatically wrong? Then you have severe case of tunnel vision.

Your words "So you call Wild a Nazi"...now just where do I do that?. I repeat ....Wild gives at the very least, tacit approval HIMSELF to being identified as a Nazi, he doesn't care that he tags himself as such.

Yet that gives you reason to say to me.... "you are certainly the Nazi." Are you purposely trying to say something stupid ? Is that how you like to make your point to people?

If your post was an attempt to divert focus off what was said then it has failed, if it was anything else then it was nothing but a limp and feeble effort to throw everything in the air and pick out stuff you can simply blame on America, Britain or the West.

Your approach is to argue (I am paraphrasing here) 'the Nazis were wrong but Americans are always wrong' a childish , ill-proportioned, cockeyed standpoint. If you want to argue against the things you accuse your opponents of, it is nonsensical to act in the same way as your accusation.

I think of America as a superior country in many ways and certainly superior to non democratic dictator states. But there can only be one country or one way of life that's always injust, according to you, and it's Western and or American and no other puts a foot wrong by which you are prepared to condemn with the same vigor.

To discuss a topic with you, wild or your cronies becomes impossible as your main agenda is always to denounce America no matter what and with the most bitter and twisted viewpoint you can find. Even to the stage where you can't think for yourselves but rely upon inaccurate and irrelevant floods of text from any extreme cranky website that fits your purpose.

You should find happiness with your new little friend Wild, like petulant adolescents in a dismal world of your own where confusion, peevishness and frustration reigns.

 

[max401]

Quote from wild:

Quote from ElCubano:

Thats the problem nobody but you cares if RS7 has lied or not on a internet forum (which is a place where no one lies)....you have become obssesed and you look like a fool....

My vote was deleted..but I will put it up for you again....you are a spineless spin queen, nothing would bring me greater joy than to be able to piss on your grave........

You have to resort to an ElCubano post? Sheeesh!

 

[traderfut2000]

http://www.sci.pfu.edu.ru/~asemenov/lumumba/LUMUMBA.HTM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/974745.stm

1960 took a marked anti-imperialist line. The young republic in the heart of Africa where, in Lumumba's view, political independence was not to be an end in itself but the prerequisite for thorough social and economic changes and which wanted to pursue a non-aligned foreign policy, immediatly brought the domestic and foreign reactionaires into the arena, who, finally, under the guidance of the CIA translated their long-cherished plans into bitter reality. Patrice Lumumba had become the victim of an insidious imperialist plot. The pioneer of African unity died after bestial torture on the night from 17 to 18 January 1961 in Elisabethville at the hands of his murderers. The promising country was turned into a neocolonial state. The ideas of Lumumba, that great patriot and fervent advocate of African unity, however, live in the hearts and minds of his people and the peoples of a whole continent.

"The only thing we wanted for our country was the right to a decent existence, to dignity without hypocrisy , to independence without restrictions... The day will come when history will have its say."

From his farewell letter to his wife

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from traderfut2000:

Fair enough, I agree with all of your points. The only thing is that you suggest those hate groups are just promoting peacefully their ideas. It's like if you forgot about your history.

Look Optional, I am not what you think. I do not hate the USA, and I even believe that the american achived great things and I thank them for that. The point where I differ with most americans is that America is far from being perfect.

I cannot accept your critics about germany and the Nazi regim if you forgot about the bloody history of your own country. Indians, Black, Asians (especially chinese) and even Jews were persecuted in the US. I am not talking about the foreign policy of the USA that perpetrated surely more dead in the world than the second world war. I am from the third world, and I know that many good men were killed for promoting democracy and human rights in their own country and were usually killed by CIA agents..

I am basing my view on facts and not on a manichean vision of the world the good and the bad. I even think that you americans have nothing to do in all those crimes, since, somewhat you are the victims of a system...

Mine is not a criticism of the current state of Germany, I congratulate them if they are practicing democracy in their actions.

However, it is an historical fact that if not for the actions of the Allied forces in WWII, democracy in Germany would not have begun 50 years ago. It is also the case in Japan, as they now have a democratic process at work.

The Germans did not come to a Democratic government in the same way the United States did. They came to that conclusion after their former goverment was crushed by the Allies and the Soviets.

The Americans, with all of our flaws which history shows, started out with ideals and we have been trying to grow into those ideals for over 200 years.

We have a lot more to do. We have since our beginnings grown as a country and have a social concience that is attempting to evolve......as women, and those of a minority status can vouch for when they go to the voting booth, a right they did not always have. There was a time when they could not vote, now they can.

It is an evolutionary process, and I happen to have faith and hope that America as a country will continue grow and change.

I am going to give an analogy that I am sure you won't like, but I believe it is appropriate and goes to the issue of progressing and evolving into more of what we all want our respective countries to be.

In the circles of recovery from alcohol, drugs and other life challenging problems, many addicts delve into their early childhoods. The majority find and accept that they suffered abuse from their parents.

I have witnessed two different responses among those addicts who attempt to recover once they fully accept what happened in their past.

Some blame their parents for their current state of life and choose to stay in blaming mode so as not to change their bad habits. It is easy for them to rationalize their sad state of affairs, once they conclude it was not their fault that they turned out the way they did, as they were innocent victims----they cannot change the past, and are now damaged for life. They remain in this victim mode, and make no progress in real recovery from the childhood pain that binds them into their self destructive thinking. They remain locked into their world of an inner child who is feeling sorry for themselves. They continue to wait for their parents to provide restitution, to restore them to a whole status, to give them the love and acceptance they never received........and it never happens......and neither does their recovery process.

Others accept what happened to them as innocent children, get angry for a while, but eventually forgive those who perpetrated abuse on them, and accept fully the responsibility and need to change themselves if they want to grow out of their suffering. They end up recovering and moving forward as adults.

I see you the same way.

Sure, bad things happened to the native Americans, blacks, hispanics, jews, catholics, women, children, etc. That is all in the past, undeniable. Bad things will happen in life, just the way life is.

However, the past cannot be changed. It is what it is. Whether or not an adult recovers from their past is their choice, or stays stuck in it is also their choice.

It is how we deal with the past going forward that determines our fate and emotional and mental well being.

Strangely enough, this ties in with the mentality of a good trader, who doesn't blame the market makers, the brokerage firms, or others for their failures and negative situations in the markets.

They accept full responsibility for where they are right now, today, and take the necessary steps to improve, learn and grow.....they move forward and evolve.

It is an adult approach to life, and adult approach to trading.

Some get there, some don't.

It is a personal choice.

 

[rs7]

Quote from traderfut2000:

Don't forget that till the 60's, France and Great britain had their colonies and what they did was simply disgusting and could be comapred to the Nazi exactions. Don't forget that.

So, then the actions of the Isreali freedom fighters against their British oppressors must be justifiable to you. Am I reading you correctly?

All the talk about the Israeli terrorists and how they bombed the King David Hotel .... all this was directed not at the "palestinians" (arabs at the time), but at the British. So I guess you must be a supporter of those actions according to what you say here. Is this right? (BTW, do you know WHY they bombed the hotel?)

Peace,
rs7

 

[traderfut2000]

You made some good comments here. And of course, it's easy to blame the others. One should take responsibility for what happens to him and I cannot refute that.

Germany has grown and evolved and though I am not german and certainly not a fan of the nazi who considers Jews and Arabs alike, I belive that we should turn the page and focus on the present.

I don't think a war on Iraq is what should be done by the USA and history has proved to us that War should be avoided at all costs. Of course, Saddam is a dictator. But what scares me is the way opinions suddenly changed in europe. Before 1990 Saddam was a laic and moderate dictator in favour of the west. Whatever crimes he commited, nothing was taken into account. After 1990, when invading Koweit, a tiny country of 600,000 inhabitants, this guy became Hitler???? and hatred spread on all arabs. I recall walls on where it was written kill all the arabs ort fuck the arabs... Saddam was killed and what was one of the most developped country in the middle east became a poor country and the USA never stopped bombarding this country. more than 1.5 million people died. Of course, you can say that this is Saddam's fault, like G Bush does, but is it true??? The Iraqi People has done nothing to deserve this and the USA should have avoided the killings of innocent civilians at all costs. If this was the case, I would have been the first to say, GOD BLESS AMERICA. But this was not. History is repeating itself again and again and all of those killings could have been avoided.

Quote from OPTIONAL777:



Mine is not a criticism of the current state of Germany, I congratulate them if they are practicing democracy in their actions.

However, it .......

 

[traderfut2000]

My friend Rs7, British were not the inhabitants of palestine they were colons and the Jews were also not inhabitants of this region of the world and wanted to replace the new colons.

Today, is different of course, the jews that are in Israel grew up and were born in Israel. Of course, we can take the case of France, where the French stayed something like 130 years and did not want to quit Algeria saying it was their country.. The french were chased because the conditions under which Algerians were treated were just unbearable, many war crimes were commited in Algeria and this is why I said that the French at that time were no better than the German. You can fight an army but you cannot fight people indifenetely. This reminds me of Spartacus and the time when slaves fought the Romans.


Personaly, I hope the situation will improve in Israel and I think it is achievable. I hope that Jews and Arabs will live together. I already lived with jews, and even ate their food, which is delicious, and I think the same could be achieved in Israel/Palestine.


Shalom

TF

Quote from rs7:



So, then the actions of the Isreali freedom fighters against their British oppressors must be justifiable to you. Am I reading you correctly?

All the talk about the Israeli terrorists and how they bombed the King David Hotel .... all this was directed not at the "palestinians" (arabs at the time), but at the British. So I guess you must be a supporter of those actions according to what you say here. Is this right? (BTW, do you know WHY they bombed the hotel?)

Peace,
rs7