and as for safety, just ask yourself this: who'd be safer, an indonesian in sydney, or an australian in djakarta? not even close, is it... the only Ozzies you can see in Jakarta these days are diplomats or pimps: not much has changed, and either they have armoured limousines or local thugs to protect them
precisely my point! an australian in djakarta is in far greater danger of for his life than an indonesian in sydney! glad you see it my way!
also, where do you get off, as an indonesian, protesting about discrimination against indonesians in australia (there is none) and other western countries, when in your very own country not only are westerners at far greater risks, but look at the horrific treatment the east timorese suffered for years at the hands of indonesians.. what about indonesia's chinese population, terrorized and had homes and shops burnt down (check your history books buddy)... or how about being a christian in indonesia.. good luck...
mahatir can rant and rave all he likes (and he does it a LOT), but he thank his lucky stars for the colonial period that brought culture and civilization to what would have otherwise no doubt been another sout east asian backwater hole. I don't know what culture you refer to, you mean that agglommeration of pastimes which Australians waste their entire lives on?
look, you don't have to like other cultures, but they are STILL cultures.
just out of curiousity, what are you guys doing in indonesia that's so vastly superior? devoting your lives to serving allah? geez, i'm hard pressed to think of a greater (and sadder) waste of time than that...
what planet are you on? we already HAVE massive scale asian immigration. walked down inner melbourne or sydney lately? there's entire regions where you'll be lucky to spot a non-asian. melbourne's mayor is chinese (and can barely speak english). you are out of your mind. those sections of Melbourne and Sydney are almost the only places where you can get some decent food!
ok, so you prefer asian food. great. personally, i hate it. i find it disgusting. but can you see how that is entirely beside the point?
furthermore, with your constant jabs at westerners, your attitude seems to me FAR more racist than anything i, or hapaboy, or any others here on "my side" have said to you. i thought the days when those primitive chinese and japanese deadheads considered westerners "barbarians" were long gone.. maybe i was wrong..
now, if by "large scale" you mean we should just open the floodgates and let in every low life, no-skill parasite with a heartbeat, you, again, are out of your mind. not bad! say: how long ago was it that the main qualification for going to Australia was to be a criminal and convict?
about 150 years ago. so? (or maybe we should take the chinese "historical perspective" and make australia a penal colony again...)
I found those remarks by Mr Wild on the history of the English language highly interesting. And as a consequence I will take a closer look at the German language and culture.
yes, they were interesting weren't they. although, ultimately, i think wild is WAY OFF in calling english a german dialect (he is completely ignoring the Norman influence).
sure, go ahead and take a look. i recommend, for a balanced understanding, that you have a look into the development of the 'highly cultured' doctrines of Lebensraum and Drang nach Osten that played such a large role in german (and hence european) history after the formation of their unified state (c 19th century)
to begin with I was denied service at a restaurant and eventually left. That is what I call "endemic racism": that fish and chip shop woman in Queensland is just the tip of the iceberg, and if you do not understand me, then you are just a living proof of my statements.
fairplay, i'm not denying that some australians are racists (to varying extents). i meant, what legislation is there in australia that denies an asian immigrant (or visitor) anything that is available to non-asians. NONE!
obviously i can't guarantee that every single australian is going to be overjoyed to see and serve you any more than you can guarantee me the same in indonesia.
if you came and settled in australia, you'd probably seek out members of the indonesian community to form friendship ties with... it's only natural. am i to call you a racist for not choosing white anglo-saxons? obviously not. people have preferences. the point is that, probably to a greater degree than any other nation in the world, australians, in the cities at least, have learnt to not only tolerate, but appreciate and, increasingly, celebtrate cultural and ethnic differences.
and, you might be interested to know, i'm an immigrant myself. i also half from gypsy origin. so i can certainly relate to being discriminated against on a racial basis. but i learnt to get over it, and, lo and behold, i mysteriously saw less and less evidence of it occurring in my life. the lesson: most of what you regard as discrimination is probably nothing more than a figment of your imagination.
oh, and also, when i'm in america i'm usually mistaken for either a mexican or an arab. so you can imagine the fun i have with the INS
the thing is, i'd feel the immigration authorities weren't doing their jobs if they didn't zero in on me (young arab/mexican male) and ask me their 1001 questions. the last time i entered was shortly after 9/11. i was shocked at how easily i got through at Vegas's McCaran aiport.
Then: your highly skilled immigration officers are only trained to pick on Asian travellers. Why is it that any fairskinned traveller walks through baggage control and all Asians have their luggage sniffed at by dogs, if not for offending our feelings. You know it and everybody else knows it.
because it's a well known fact that the vast majority of drugs entering the country come from asia. it has nothing to do with offending your feelings (i refer you to what i wrote above).
I do not quite see how "western" Australia is: seen from most places in Asia and Africa it lies to the East. And I repeat my statement: the absence of culture in that country will hopefully soon be eradicated by a few million Indonesians who cannot find a livelihood in their own country.
i don't see how "eastern" the East is either. obviously they are terms we use out of convenience. if you truly don't understand why australia is classed as a western nation you have no place even taking part in discussions like this.
again, there IS a culture here. apparently it is not one that you appreciate. good for you! you don't have to! but if the only reason you find it inferior because it's different to your own, well sonny, that, in my book, is RACIST.
as for the immigration, there is some debate here about ideal population levels. if it was decided to increase them by a process of lessened immigration controls, obviously indonesians would play a role. however, i'm highly, highly doubtful (and opposed to) those immigrants being of the sort that "can't find a livelihood in their own country".
precisely my point! an australian in djakarta is in far greater danger of for his life than an indonesian in sydney! glad you see it my way!
also, where do you get off, as an indonesian, protesting about discrimination against indonesians in australia (there is none) and other western countries, when in your very own country not only are westerners at far greater risks, but look at the horrific treatment the east timorese suffered for years at the hands of indonesians.. what about indonesia's chinese population, terrorized and had homes and shops burnt down (check your history books buddy)... or how about being a christian in indonesia.. good luck...
mahatir can rant and rave all he likes (and he does it a LOT), but he thank his lucky stars for the colonial period that brought culture and civilization to what would have otherwise no doubt been another sout east asian backwater hole. I don't know what culture you refer to, you mean that agglommeration of pastimes which Australians waste their entire lives on?
look, you don't have to like other cultures, but they are STILL cultures.
just out of curiousity, what are you guys doing in indonesia that's so vastly superior? devoting your lives to serving allah? geez, i'm hard pressed to think of a greater (and sadder) waste of time than that...
what planet are you on? we already HAVE massive scale asian immigration. walked down inner melbourne or sydney lately? there's entire regions where you'll be lucky to spot a non-asian. melbourne's mayor is chinese (and can barely speak english). you are out of your mind. those sections of Melbourne and Sydney are almost the only places where you can get some decent food!
ok, so you prefer asian food. great. personally, i hate it. i find it disgusting. but can you see how that is entirely beside the point?
furthermore, with your constant jabs at westerners, your attitude seems to me FAR more racist than anything i, or hapaboy, or any others here on "my side" have said to you. i thought the days when those primitive chinese and japanese deadheads considered westerners "barbarians" were long gone.. maybe i was wrong..
now, if by "large scale" you mean we should just open the floodgates and let in every low life, no-skill parasite with a heartbeat, you, again, are out of your mind. not bad! say: how long ago was it that the main qualification for going to Australia was to be a criminal and convict?
about 150 years ago. so? (or maybe we should take the chinese "historical perspective" and make australia a penal colony again...)
I found those remarks by Mr Wild on the history of the English language highly interesting. And as a consequence I will take a closer look at the German language and culture.
yes, they were interesting weren't they. although, ultimately, i think wild is WAY OFF in calling english a german dialect (he is completely ignoring the Norman influence).
sure, go ahead and take a look. i recommend, for a balanced understanding, that you have a look into the development of the 'highly cultured' doctrines of Lebensraum and Drang nach Osten that played such a large role in german (and hence european) history after the formation of their unified state (c 19th century)
to begin with I was denied service at a restaurant and eventually left. That is what I call "endemic racism": that fish and chip shop woman in Queensland is just the tip of the iceberg, and if you do not understand me, then you are just a living proof of my statements.
fairplay, i'm not denying that some australians are racists (to varying extents). i meant, what legislation is there in australia that denies an asian immigrant (or visitor) anything that is available to non-asians. NONE!
obviously i can't guarantee that every single australian is going to be overjoyed to see and serve you any more than you can guarantee me the same in indonesia.
if you came and settled in australia, you'd probably seek out members of the indonesian community to form friendship ties with... it's only natural. am i to call you a racist for not choosing white anglo-saxons? obviously not. people have preferences. the point is that, probably to a greater degree than any other nation in the world, australians, in the cities at least, have learnt to not only tolerate, but appreciate and, increasingly, celebtrate cultural and ethnic differences.
and, you might be interested to know, i'm an immigrant myself. i also half from gypsy origin. so i can certainly relate to being discriminated against on a racial basis. but i learnt to get over it, and, lo and behold, i mysteriously saw less and less evidence of it occurring in my life. the lesson: most of what you regard as discrimination is probably nothing more than a figment of your imagination.
oh, and also, when i'm in america i'm usually mistaken for either a mexican or an arab. so you can imagine the fun i have with the INS
the thing is, i'd feel the immigration authorities weren't doing their jobs if they didn't zero in on me (young arab/mexican male) and ask me their 1001 questions. the last time i entered was shortly after 9/11. i was shocked at how easily i got through at Vegas's McCaran aiport.Then: your highly skilled immigration officers are only trained to pick on Asian travellers. Why is it that any fairskinned traveller walks through baggage control and all Asians have their luggage sniffed at by dogs, if not for offending our feelings. You know it and everybody else knows it.
because it's a well known fact that the vast majority of drugs entering the country come from asia. it has nothing to do with offending your feelings (i refer you to what i wrote above).
I do not quite see how "western" Australia is: seen from most places in Asia and Africa it lies to the East. And I repeat my statement: the absence of culture in that country will hopefully soon be eradicated by a few million Indonesians who cannot find a livelihood in their own country.
i don't see how "eastern" the East is either. obviously they are terms we use out of convenience. if you truly don't understand why australia is classed as a western nation you have no place even taking part in discussions like this.
again, there IS a culture here. apparently it is not one that you appreciate. good for you! you don't have to! but if the only reason you find it inferior because it's different to your own, well sonny, that, in my book, is RACIST.
as for the immigration, there is some debate here about ideal population levels. if it was decided to increase them by a process of lessened immigration controls, obviously indonesians would play a role. however, i'm highly, highly doubtful (and opposed to) those immigrants being of the sort that "can't find a livelihood in their own country".