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POLL: The repercussions of a US attack on Iraq
- Thread starter candletrader
- Start date
Quote from traderfut2000:
Of course the Jews were used as slaves, but 5/10 years comapre that to the suffering of the black people in your own country..
Not even comparable..
they're not directly comparable, but surely you don't think 400 years of enslavement is THAT much worse (or worse at all) than the intentional slaughter of millions just because the slaughter 'only' happened over 5 years, do you?
i'll agree with you on one thing, though, TF, that america had such an appalling record of domestic human rights abuse that it's very funny to hear TM laying it all on the europeans the way he does...
Shame on you, America! Shame! Shame! Shame!
So your government starts fingerprinting all those foreigners who are not white enough, he? I should have dwelt on those "arab"-looking individuals who got bounced off planes because you upright fighters for world freedom and human rights are suspicious.
Why don't you do as your fathers did during the 2nd WW and build new concentration camps (in those days descendants of Japanese immigrants)? At least that way you show your policies are consistent.
You, especially those of you who deep down harbour racist views, disguised as pro-Israel and anti-Nazi/German sentiments, make me give out.
I am not into this copy and paste thing like Mr Wild does in such a marvellous manner, but here is something for you swines to read for yourselves:
quote:
Indons told not to travel to US
JAKARTA, Jan 17: Indonesia today urged its nationals to avoid travel to the United
States after Washington imposed âdiscriminativeâ new immigration rules aimed at tracking potential terrorists
President Megawati Sukarnoputri "directly conveyed her disappointment" with the new rules during talks with visiting US envoy James Kelly at the presidential palace here, said Foreign Minister Hassan Wirayuda.
Kelly, US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia and Pacific Affairs, is on a two-day visit to Jakarta.
Washington yesterday added Indonesia, Bangladesh, Egypt, Jordan and Kuwait to a list of countries whose nationals must register with the Immigration and Naturalisation Service between Feb 24 and March 28.
Under the regulations, males aged 16 and older from the designated countries must present themselves to the INS to register their whereabouts.
"It is a discriminative decision made very arbitrarily," Hassan told a Press briefing.
The new rules only apply to temporary visitors to the US. About 40,000 Indonesians live legally in the US.
Hassan said Washington's decision "sends wrong signals" to Indonesia's commitment to fight terrorism.
"If we talk about threats of terrorism, then Indonesia, much like America, is a victim of terror and the world knows that the Government is serious about its part in the global and regional fight against terrorism," Hassan said.
To avoid potential problems in future, Hassan said the Indonesian embassy in Washington had advised Indonesians across America to "complete their (immigration) documents and those who have no proper documents to return home.
"While the Government is assessing the new policy, for the time being Indonesian citizens should postpone any essential travel to the US" the Foreign Minister said, describing the government call as a "travel advisory".
US human rights groups said the measures only spread fear and did little to track potential terrorists. â AFP
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Saturday/World/20030118094607/Article/
Enough said: when the victims of your chauvinism and fascist views (those of you who have them know that I mean them!) come and hit back at you, remember that what you do to others is what you will get back from others.
So your government starts fingerprinting all those foreigners who are not white enough, he? I should have dwelt on those "arab"-looking individuals who got bounced off planes because you upright fighters for world freedom and human rights are suspicious.
Why don't you do as your fathers did during the 2nd WW and build new concentration camps (in those days descendants of Japanese immigrants)? At least that way you show your policies are consistent.
You, especially those of you who deep down harbour racist views, disguised as pro-Israel and anti-Nazi/German sentiments, make me give out.
I am not into this copy and paste thing like Mr Wild does in such a marvellous manner, but here is something for you swines to read for yourselves:
quote:
Indons told not to travel to US
JAKARTA, Jan 17: Indonesia today urged its nationals to avoid travel to the United
States after Washington imposed âdiscriminativeâ new immigration rules aimed at tracking potential terrorists
President Megawati Sukarnoputri "directly conveyed her disappointment" with the new rules during talks with visiting US envoy James Kelly at the presidential palace here, said Foreign Minister Hassan Wirayuda.
Kelly, US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia and Pacific Affairs, is on a two-day visit to Jakarta.
Washington yesterday added Indonesia, Bangladesh, Egypt, Jordan and Kuwait to a list of countries whose nationals must register with the Immigration and Naturalisation Service between Feb 24 and March 28.
Under the regulations, males aged 16 and older from the designated countries must present themselves to the INS to register their whereabouts.
"It is a discriminative decision made very arbitrarily," Hassan told a Press briefing.
The new rules only apply to temporary visitors to the US. About 40,000 Indonesians live legally in the US.
Hassan said Washington's decision "sends wrong signals" to Indonesia's commitment to fight terrorism.
"If we talk about threats of terrorism, then Indonesia, much like America, is a victim of terror and the world knows that the Government is serious about its part in the global and regional fight against terrorism," Hassan said.
To avoid potential problems in future, Hassan said the Indonesian embassy in Washington had advised Indonesians across America to "complete their (immigration) documents and those who have no proper documents to return home.
"While the Government is assessing the new policy, for the time being Indonesian citizens should postpone any essential travel to the US" the Foreign Minister said, describing the government call as a "travel advisory".
US human rights groups said the measures only spread fear and did little to track potential terrorists. â AFP
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Saturday/World/20030118094607/Article/
Enough said: when the victims of your chauvinism and fascist views (those of you who have them know that I mean them!) come and hit back at you, remember that what you do to others is what you will get back from others.
what a complete joke!
fairplay, aren't getting a little tired of sounding like a total idiot yet?
what freakin reason would indonesians have to fear going to the US? a few extra questions from the INS? lol..
that sounds so similar to the BS spoken by that idiot Mahatir Mohammed that australia was unsafe for muslims. what a nutcase.
fairplay, aren't getting a little tired of sounding like a total idiot yet?
what freakin reason would indonesians have to fear going to the US? a few extra questions from the INS? lol..
that sounds so similar to the BS spoken by that idiot Mahatir Mohammed that australia was unsafe for muslims. what a nutcase.
Quote from daniel_m:
what a complete joke!
fairplay, aren't getting a little tired of sounding like a total idiot yet?
Yes, I am getting tired of being called an idiot by types like you!
what freakin reason would indonesians have to fear going to the US? a few extra questions from the INS? lol..
Has it never occurred to you that discrimination of any kind is fearful? And being deported at the wims and fancies of a semi-literate immigration officer?
that sounds so similar to the BS spoken by that idiot Mahatir Mohammed that australia was unsafe for muslims. what a nutcase.
Datuk Seri Dr. Mahathir Mohammed is my true hero: at least he not only has a professional background (before going into politics he was a medical doctor) - that already sets him miles ahead of that dim wit in the white house - but he is also the architect of that wonderful country Malaysia, which is the envy and role model for so many countries in South East Asia and Africa, where all other "civilisation efforts" of your british forefathers have failed.
And yes, I agree with him: as an Asian who unfortunately is not white enough for the thugs at immigration in Sydney or Melbourne, it is not advisable to go there: people get deported on arrival for flimsey reasons such as :
* they do not speak English
* they have no hotel booking
* they "look suspicious".
All these by the way are documented cases of the recent past.
Australia has been described as the closest thing to the US in Asia. I have been there several times, but since I have not been to the US, I cannot comment on that. But if that is true, I really feel sorry for you people in America, really.
The sooner that country allows large scale Asian immigration, the better for the people there and elsewhere in the region. Not only at last they would bring along some real culture (something not just slightly different from "Hungry Jack's" or "San Francisco Coffee"), but also some civilisation and proper languages. English is just one language, and it is not even suitable for cultural achievements. See those mediocre writings of Shakespeare and the likes and compare them with Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian and Indian or Korean literature! Sorry, I can't think of any American writer who I would recommend my children to read. But probably you do not even know who Shakespeare was, let alone the names of any Asian writers.
Go back into your cage and keep your mouth shut.
Has it never occurred to you that discrimination of any kind is fearful? And being deported at the wims and fancies of a semi-literate immigration officer?
maybe the immigration officers in thirld world asian countries are semi-literate, but in australia (and i imagine the rest of the west) we have highly trained professionals whose are well versed in picking out the bad apples.
now, if it's a well known fact that people from some countries/racial groups are more likely than others to overstay their visas and live/work illegally, i'm GLAD that we've got a system in place that weeds them out.
and as for safety, just ask yourself this: who'd be safer, an indonesian in sydney, or an australian in djakarta? not even close, is it...
Datuk Seri Dr. Mahathir Mohammed is my true hero: at least he not only has a professional background (before going into politics he was a medical doctor) - that already sets him miles ahead of that dim wit in the white house - but he is also the architect of that wonderful country Malaysia, which is the envy and role model for so many countries in South East Asia and Africa, where all other "civilisation efforts" of your british forefathers have failed.
lol.
mahatir can rant and rave all he likes (and he does it a LOT), but he thank his lucky stars for the colonial period that brought culture and civilization to what would have otherwise no doubt been another sout east asian backwater hole.
The sooner that country allows large scale Asian immigration, the better for the people there and elsewhere in the region. Not only at last they would bring along some real culture (something not just slightly different from "Hungry Jack's" or "San Francisco Coffee"), but also some civilisation and proper languages.
what planet are you on? we already HAVE massive scale asian immigration. walked down inner melbourne or sydney lately? there's entire regions where you'll be lucky to spot a non-asian. melbourne's mayor is chinese (and can barely speak english). you are out of your mind.
now, if by "large scale" you mean we should just open the floodgates and let in every low life, no-skill parasite with a heartbeat, you, again, are out of your mind.
personally, i think australia has a FANTASTIC culture. what the hell is wrong with it? it's a massive melting pot of world cultures, and, contrary to your (and that ignoramous mahatir's) opinion, it is a poster child for cultural and religious tolerance. (a few lessons for you indonesians to learn, that's for sure).
English is just one language, and it is not even suitable for cultural achievements. See those mediocre writings of Shakespeare and the likes and compare them with Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian and Indian or Korean literature! [/b\
well, since i can't actually speak chinese or japanese it's somewhat difficult for me to compare them, but it sounds like this is just more bullshit from you.
i am tempted to think, however, that no other language on the face of this earth could come close to holding a candle to english for the vast varieties of expression it offers. no other language has anywhere near the amount of words that english uses. and i see you snuck indonesian there in the comparison -- hahah, yeah, riiiiiighht. lol.
Sorry, I can't think of any American writer who I would recommend my children to read.
well that's understandable -- you are a first class dimwit.
fairplay, you need to get your head out of the sand buddy. the racial discrimination you see is nowhere near as pervasive as you seem to think. you said you've been to australia. what, do tell us, was denied to you on the basis of race?? hmm?? probably some standard muslim bullshit. you know, a woman covers herself head to toe in some black bed sheet... well OF COURSE people are gonna look at her... it's not the kind of thing you see every day here is it!
listen fairplay, you're not playing fair at all.
i'm not asking you to fall in love with "western culture" (for want of a better term)... you're free to voice your concern about whatever forms of discrimination you believe exist (good luck finding them). but by putting down and mocking the west the way you do, what you're doing is equally as racist as the discrimination your whining about.
time to grow up.
maybe the immigration officers in thirld world asian countries are semi-literate, but in australia (and i imagine the rest of the west) we have highly trained professionals whose are well versed in picking out the bad apples.
now, if it's a well known fact that people from some countries/racial groups are more likely than others to overstay their visas and live/work illegally, i'm GLAD that we've got a system in place that weeds them out.
and as for safety, just ask yourself this: who'd be safer, an indonesian in sydney, or an australian in djakarta? not even close, is it...
Datuk Seri Dr. Mahathir Mohammed is my true hero: at least he not only has a professional background (before going into politics he was a medical doctor) - that already sets him miles ahead of that dim wit in the white house - but he is also the architect of that wonderful country Malaysia, which is the envy and role model for so many countries in South East Asia and Africa, where all other "civilisation efforts" of your british forefathers have failed.
lol.
mahatir can rant and rave all he likes (and he does it a LOT), but he thank his lucky stars for the colonial period that brought culture and civilization to what would have otherwise no doubt been another sout east asian backwater hole.
The sooner that country allows large scale Asian immigration, the better for the people there and elsewhere in the region. Not only at last they would bring along some real culture (something not just slightly different from "Hungry Jack's" or "San Francisco Coffee"), but also some civilisation and proper languages.
what planet are you on? we already HAVE massive scale asian immigration. walked down inner melbourne or sydney lately? there's entire regions where you'll be lucky to spot a non-asian. melbourne's mayor is chinese (and can barely speak english). you are out of your mind.
now, if by "large scale" you mean we should just open the floodgates and let in every low life, no-skill parasite with a heartbeat, you, again, are out of your mind.
personally, i think australia has a FANTASTIC culture. what the hell is wrong with it? it's a massive melting pot of world cultures, and, contrary to your (and that ignoramous mahatir's) opinion, it is a poster child for cultural and religious tolerance. (a few lessons for you indonesians to learn, that's for sure).
English is just one language, and it is not even suitable for cultural achievements. See those mediocre writings of Shakespeare and the likes and compare them with Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian and Indian or Korean literature! [/b\
well, since i can't actually speak chinese or japanese it's somewhat difficult for me to compare them, but it sounds like this is just more bullshit from you.
i am tempted to think, however, that no other language on the face of this earth could come close to holding a candle to english for the vast varieties of expression it offers. no other language has anywhere near the amount of words that english uses. and i see you snuck indonesian there in the comparison -- hahah, yeah, riiiiiighht. lol.
Sorry, I can't think of any American writer who I would recommend my children to read.
well that's understandable -- you are a first class dimwit.
fairplay, you need to get your head out of the sand buddy. the racial discrimination you see is nowhere near as pervasive as you seem to think. you said you've been to australia. what, do tell us, was denied to you on the basis of race?? hmm?? probably some standard muslim bullshit. you know, a woman covers herself head to toe in some black bed sheet... well OF COURSE people are gonna look at her... it's not the kind of thing you see every day here is it!
listen fairplay, you're not playing fair at all.
i'm not asking you to fall in love with "western culture" (for want of a better term)... you're free to voice your concern about whatever forms of discrimination you believe exist (good luck finding them). but by putting down and mocking the west the way you do, what you're doing is equally as racist as the discrimination your whining about.
time to grow up.
Fairplay, as usual you are showing the limits of your intellect.Quote from fairplay:
Shame on you, America! Shame! Shame! Shame!
So your government starts fingerprinting all those foreigners who are not white enough....
Why don't you do as your fathers did during the 2nd WW and build new concentration camps....
You, especially those of you who deep down harbour racist views, disguised as pro-Israel and anti-Nazi/German sentiments, make me give out..........
I am not into this copy and paste thing like Mr Wild does in such a marvellous manner, but here is something for you swines to read for yourselves......
Washington yesterday added Indonesia, Bangladesh, Egypt, Jordan and Kuwait to a list of countries whose nationals must register with the Immigration and Naturalisation Service between Feb 24 and March 28.
Under the regulations, males aged 16 and older from the designated countries must present themselves to the INS to register their whereabouts.
The new rules only apply to temporary visitors to the US.
Enough said: when the victims of your chauvinism and fascist views (those of you who have them know that I mean them!) come and hit back at you, remember that what you do to others is what you will get back from others.
What is the BIG DEAL? If someone is innocent then they have nothing to fear by registering with the INS, for chrissakes. In case you didn't notice, my country is trying to defend itself from another attack. Inconveniencing somebody for a couple of hours is a small price to pay for a higher level of security. Ethnic profiling is NOT an injustice, but common sense under these circumstances. If you were attacked by Caucasians, who would you be watching? Black Africans? If the role was reversed and I visited Indonesia, I would have no qualms about registering with your version of the INS - except that it's more than likely totally corrupt and I'd have to pay some money in order to not be arrested.
Shortly after 9/11, an Arab-American doctor was detained and questioned at length because his name came up on a flight manifest or something of that nature. The media immediately jumped on the story while several human rights groups protested. And the doctor? He calmly stated that he understood the reasoning and, as an American, accepted that extraordinary circumstances demanded extraordinary vigilance.
If he's not complaining, who are you to do so?
I really don't have to explain this to you. My country owes nobody an apology for defending itself in this manner. If you don't like it, fine, too bad, just stay away.
I imagine you'll respond to this post the same as you did my previous one - you won't, because you can't without revealing the fallacies that litter just about every statement that you make.
And remarks such as
only serve to give further evidence of your ignorance.English is just one language, and it is not even suitable for cultural achievements. See those mediocre writings of Shakespeare and the likes and compare them with Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian and Indian or Korean literature!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
English is just one language, and it is not even suitable for cultural achievements. See those mediocre writings of Shakespeare and the likes and compare them with Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian and Indian or Korean literature!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fairplay,
mind you, English is just another German dialect brought to the British isles by the victorious Angles and Saxons from Northern Germany ... later corrupted by the mediaeval French the Normans under William the Conquerer superimposed on it.
Romanised Briton leaders operated the Roman system of local government until about 446, when they made a final, fruitless appeal to Rome for protection. From then onwards, power fell more and more into the hands of local chiefs. From time to time, some of them established a lordship over others. Tradition says that one such overlord, Vortigern, controlled an area from Kent to South Wales. During the post Roman period Celtic traditions again briefly came to the fore in Britain.
During the 400's and 500's, the Saxons invaded Britain, conquered the Britons who lived there, and settled around the River Thames in southern and eastern Britain. An army of Welsh Celts defeated the invading Saxons in 500, but could not hold off the hoards that were constantly arriving from across the North Sea. The Saxons advanced westwards to the Bristol Channel by 577 and to the Irish Sea by 613. By then, almost all of present-day England was under Anglo-Saxon rule.
These raids were part of a general migration of Germanic tribes in search of new land for their increasing population. Tradition says that the Anglo-Saxon settlement of England began in 449, when Vortigern invited two Jutish chiefs, Hengest and Horsa, to help him defend Kent against invading tribes. Hengest and Horsa later rebelled against Vortigern. Horsa died in battle, but by about 550 the descendants of Hengest had conquered Kent, Sussex, Hampshire, and the Isle of Wight.
Wherever the Anglo-Saxon settlers went, they largely displaced the Britons, forcing them northwards and westwards into present-day Scotland and Wales. The Britons held out for a number of years under a tribal chief who may have been the real-life hero of the King Arthur legends. Some Britons took refuge in Cornwall or across the Channel in the Roman province of Armorica in northwestern France. This area was later named Brittany after the Britons, who subsequently became known as Bretons. In the 500's and 600's, the Angles made gains in Scotland and captured the land between Wales and the Celtic kingdom of Strathclyde. In the 700's, Offa, king of Mercia, built a defensive dyke that defined the English boundary with Wales.
regards
wild
English is just one language, and it is not even suitable for cultural achievements. See those mediocre writings of Shakespeare and the likes and compare them with Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian and Indian or Korean literature!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fairplay,
mind you, English is just another German dialect brought to the British isles by the victorious Angles and Saxons from Northern Germany ... later corrupted by the mediaeval French the Normans under William the Conquerer superimposed on it.
Romanised Briton leaders operated the Roman system of local government until about 446, when they made a final, fruitless appeal to Rome for protection. From then onwards, power fell more and more into the hands of local chiefs. From time to time, some of them established a lordship over others. Tradition says that one such overlord, Vortigern, controlled an area from Kent to South Wales. During the post Roman period Celtic traditions again briefly came to the fore in Britain.
During the 400's and 500's, the Saxons invaded Britain, conquered the Britons who lived there, and settled around the River Thames in southern and eastern Britain. An army of Welsh Celts defeated the invading Saxons in 500, but could not hold off the hoards that were constantly arriving from across the North Sea. The Saxons advanced westwards to the Bristol Channel by 577 and to the Irish Sea by 613. By then, almost all of present-day England was under Anglo-Saxon rule.
These raids were part of a general migration of Germanic tribes in search of new land for their increasing population. Tradition says that the Anglo-Saxon settlement of England began in 449, when Vortigern invited two Jutish chiefs, Hengest and Horsa, to help him defend Kent against invading tribes. Hengest and Horsa later rebelled against Vortigern. Horsa died in battle, but by about 550 the descendants of Hengest had conquered Kent, Sussex, Hampshire, and the Isle of Wight.
Wherever the Anglo-Saxon settlers went, they largely displaced the Britons, forcing them northwards and westwards into present-day Scotland and Wales. The Britons held out for a number of years under a tribal chief who may have been the real-life hero of the King Arthur legends. Some Britons took refuge in Cornwall or across the Channel in the Roman province of Armorica in northwestern France. This area was later named Brittany after the Britons, who subsequently became known as Bretons. In the 500's and 600's, the Angles made gains in Scotland and captured the land between Wales and the Celtic kingdom of Strathclyde. In the 700's, Offa, king of Mercia, built a defensive dyke that defined the English boundary with Wales.
regards
wild
The Eagle Has Crash Landed
Pax Americana is over. Challenges from Vietnam and the Balkans to the Middle East and September 11 have revealed the limits of American supremacy. Will the United States learn to fade quietly, or will U.S. conservatives resist and thereby transform a gradual decline into a rapid and dangerous fall?
By Immanuel Wallerstein
The United States in decline? Few people today would believe this assertion. The only ones who do are the U.S. hawks, who argue vociferously for policies to reverse the decline. This belief that the end of U.S. hegemony has already begun does not follow from the vulnerability that became apparent to all on September 11, 2001. In fact, the United States has been fading as a global power since the 1970s, and the U.S. response to the terrorist attacks has merely accelerated this decline. To understand why the so-called Pax Americana is on the wane requires examining the geopolitics of the 20th century, particularly of the century's final three decades. This exercise uncovers a simple and inescapable conclusion: The economic, political, and military factors that contributed to U.S. hegemony are the same factors that will inexorably produce the coming U.S. decline.
full article at http://www.foreignpolicy.com/issue_julyaug_2002/wallerstein.html
regards
wild
Pax Americana is over. Challenges from Vietnam and the Balkans to the Middle East and September 11 have revealed the limits of American supremacy. Will the United States learn to fade quietly, or will U.S. conservatives resist and thereby transform a gradual decline into a rapid and dangerous fall?
By Immanuel Wallerstein
The United States in decline? Few people today would believe this assertion. The only ones who do are the U.S. hawks, who argue vociferously for policies to reverse the decline. This belief that the end of U.S. hegemony has already begun does not follow from the vulnerability that became apparent to all on September 11, 2001. In fact, the United States has been fading as a global power since the 1970s, and the U.S. response to the terrorist attacks has merely accelerated this decline. To understand why the so-called Pax Americana is on the wane requires examining the geopolitics of the 20th century, particularly of the century's final three decades. This exercise uncovers a simple and inescapable conclusion: The economic, political, and military factors that contributed to U.S. hegemony are the same factors that will inexorably produce the coming U.S. decline.
full article at http://www.foreignpolicy.com/issue_julyaug_2002/wallerstein.html
regards
wild