POLL: The repercussions of a US attack on Iraq

[traderfut2000]

First being a revisionist means that I deny and change history. I never said the nazis never killed the Jews and I will never say it.
The jewish people have the right for a state.

The same could be said of palestinian. Denying their right for a land and denying the fact that they have been chased like Rs7 implies and like you imply is revisionism.

Now what i can say Is that Arafat is certainly not all white but the creation of the state of israel was not done with flowers.

So peace is achievable but not by bombarding the buildings of the head of state.

Peace anyway

Quote from dgabriel:

TF, I agree there is great responsibility on the part of Israel in the peace process. There is equal responsibility by the other warring parties.

Your revisionist history of Israel and its birth supports my earlier post describing the Arab point of view.

Please give me the details of a Palestinian proffered peace proposal that promotes Palestinian welfare, democratic statehood, renounces terrorism in favor of peace and negotiation, and recognizes the state of Israel.

You will need a lot of revisionist history to come up with that one.

 

[traderfut2000]

I am sorry to insist on that aspect, since it is certainly the subject the most hatred on both parts. It is also directly linked with oil and everything else.

Of course, the Jews have the right for a land and of course Israel is the homeland of their ancestors, but what is interesting in the process is that at the time Israel was created we already knbew that this region was oil rich and what better for the US than to create a friendly state and give all the arms and powers necessary.

I don't think it was done just for the jewish people. I think one of the aims amongst others was to control the area. If not please explain to me why the US sends the third of its foreign aid to a tiny country Israel ... For me it is very clear. We cannot spend the taxpayer money that way if there were not superior aims and inducstrial aims.

Candle, may be I am wrong but this is my interpretation. The super power in the region is not Irak, Syria, Iran but Israel and everybody knows it.

Peace

 

[candletrader]

Quote from traderfut2000:

I am sorry to insist on that aspect, since it is certainly the subject the most hatred on both parts. It is also directly linked with oil and everything else.

Of course, the Jews have the right for a land and of course Israel is the homeland of their ancestors, but what is interesting in the process is that at the time Israel was created we already knbew that this region was oil rich and what better for the US than to create a friendly state and give all the arms and powers necessary.

I don't think it was done just for the jewish people. I think one of the aims amongst others was to control the area. If not please explain to me why the US sends the third of its foreign aid to a tiny country Israel ... For me it is very clear. We cannot spend the taxpayer money that way if there were not superior aims and inducstrial aims.

Candle, may be I am wrong but this is my interpretation. The super power in the region is not Irak, Syria, Iran but Israel and everybody knows it.

Peace

I agree with you totally that the USA needs a more even-handed policy in the region... much of Israel's strength actually comes from its lobbying groups in Washington, which have powerful backers both from Maine Street and from Wall Street...

Yes, Israel is the regional nuclear-armed superpower... and yes, Israel is a permanent fixture in the region... I have problems with the former, but I support the latter...

The only way I can see things being resolved is a left-wing government in Israel working with a moderate Palestinian leadership and mediated through Democrats in the White House... the best chance for a longstanding resolution that we had in recent history was the Rabin-Arafat-Clinton axis... a similar axis will come around in due course... it just may take some time...

 

[traderfut2000]

Candle,

I am sure of that. It's just a matter of time. I just hope that the right-wing government in Israel is nopt reelected.

Concerning Yasser Araft, 2 aspects this guy is not perfect but he became a symbol for all the palestinian the symbol of the resistant. His buidings were bombarded, we have to remember that this guy is ill and many europeans still support him and considers him as the official head of state which he is...

I cannot understand that The US an Israel asks for a new president and yet he was elected democratically by his own people. Just a nonsense and another heresy. Which of course is unacceptable and could explain why he is so popular today.

The new labour candidate in Israel said we will continue the negociations and that is good. That is the way it should be and I hope it will be.

Quote from candletrader:



I agree with you totally that the USA needs a more even-handed policy in the region... much of Israel's strength actually comes from its lobbying groups in Washington, which have powerful backers both from Maine Street and from Wall Street...

Yes, Israel is the regional nuclear-armed superpower... and yes, Israel is a permanent fixture in the region... I have problems with the former, but I support the latter...

The only way I can see things being resolved is a left-wing government in Israel working with a moderate Palestinian leadership and mediated through Democrats in the White House... the best chance for a longstanding resolution that we had in recent history was the Rabin-Arafat-Clinton axis... a similar axis will come around in due course... it just may take some time...

 

[traderfut2000]

I am sure, Arafat never proposed terrorism as a model. And as far as I kow he has been elected democratically under the supervision of the UN.

Anytime there is a suicide bomber, he never applause on the contrary he condemns them.

Quote from dgabriel:

TF, I agree there is great responsibility on the part of Israel in the peace process. There is equal responsibility by the other warring parties.

Your revisionist history of Israel and its birth supports my earlier post describing the Arab point of view.

Please give me the details of a Palestinian proffered peace proposal that promotes Palestinian welfare, democratic statehood, renounces terrorism in favor of peace and negotiation, and recognizes the state of Israel.

You will need a lot of revisionist history to come up with that one.

 

[dgabriel]

That's not an answer to my question.

To suggest that Arafat, the infamous creative architect of Palestinian terror, does support terrorism, shows you are living in a dreamworld.

Maybe Disney is hiring,you never know what your future may hold.

TF = TotalFantasy.

 

[traderfut2000]

Dgabriel, I never said that Arafat was a saint but you created a saint. That's my point. Trying to say Araft is a terrorist is a never ending issue. All the first ministers of Israel were terrorists and killed innocent civilians.
Now it's either we turn the page and recognize as you said that nobody is perfect either on the palestinian and on the Israeli side or we choose to continue to destroy what is left of the Palestinian state and we know what will follow. I am calling for reason not for blind hatred.

Quote from dgabriel:

That's not an answer to my question.

To suggest that Arafat, the infamous creative architect of Palestinian terror, does support terrorism, shows you are living in a dreamworld.

Maybe Disney is hiring,you never know what your future may hold.

TF = TotalFantasy.

 

[candletrader]

The history of both Sharon and Arafat has shown them both to be Terrorists at one time or another...

Of course, Mandela was also a terrorist, so were many other freedom fighters who later turned to the peaceful route of politics... Mandela is no longer viewed as a terrorist.. indeed he is viewed on a global basis as the manifestation of morality...

However, the past is the past... Arafat and Sharon are not currently terrorists, they are politicians... and Arafat got his Nobel peace prize as a politician, not as a terrorist from his previous life...

 

[traderfut2000]

Mandela defended the cause of his brothers before.

Do not forget that Sharon already tried to kill Arafat and he missed that opportunity. The worse is that he says it publicly.

I think that if it was not the international support for Arafat in Europe and in the Arab world he would already be killed!!! Is it a solution. I don't think so destroying the official buildings of the palestinian authority.

Peace my brothers.

Quote from candletrader:

The history of both Sharon and Arafat has shown them both to be Terrorists at one time or another...

Of course, Mandela was also a terrorist, so were many other freedom fighters who later turned to the peaceful route of politics... Mandela is no longer viewed as a terrorist.. indeed he is viewed on a global basis as the manifestation of morality...

However, the past is the past... Arafat and Sharon are not currently terrorists, they are politicians... and Arafat got his Nobel peace prize as a politician, not as a terrorist from his previous life...

 

[rs7]

Quote from traderfut2000:

Till today Rs7 you have a hatred for german and the french and yet it was 60 years ago.

I NEVER said that, or even implied that. Please, TF, do not put words in my mouth. I said there was rampant anti-semitism in France now (from what I read and what I have been told). I myself never experienced it first hand. What I DID experience, and it was over 20 years ago, was a feeling in France of anti-American sentiment.

I was in Germany and found the people there to be extremely pleasant and friendly. Same in Austria which was essentially a part of Germany during Hitlers reign.

Quote from traderfut2000:

The same could be said of palestinian. Denying their right for a land and denying the fact that they have been chased like Rs7 implies and like you imply is revisionism.

Here again you put words in my mouth. When did I ever say that the Palestinians did not deserve the right to a homeland? Never said it and never will. Please try and at least quote me or paraphrase me with some degree of accuracy. We may disagree on exactly WHERE the borders of such a Palestinian homeland should be, but at least I believe we agree that they SHOULD have a state. And I am sure they will. As soon as they have leadership that wants a state that can co-exist with Israel rather than leaders that only want the total elimination of Israel. Which, after all these years, should be apparent will NOT happen.

Peace,
rs7