POLL: Islam - vicious and wicked faith

[FredBloggs]

Quote from stu:

When you say proper religion has its place, do you mean peaceful religion has its place, or does one need to subject proper to misinterpretation in order to give it the meaning of another more suitable word?

The Koran is in no way unclear to make misinterpretation necessary. It is violent. But then, so is the Bible.

i think you will find muslims do indeed preach for peace. as does christianity, as do the jews (or at least most of them)

i will always remember this story that happened a few years after 9-11:

there i am sitting in a hotel lobby with some americans - 2 of them. both from texas.

it was an expensive london hotel - not the sort of place you see much uneducated backward riff-raff.

anyway, there we are, waiting for the chauffeur to take us out to dinner when this arab (or a-rab as the texans liked to call him - couldnt bring them selves to say the 'a' word!) walks through. there he is, black gown, red & white head dress, big moustache, big gold & diamond rolex etc - looked like typical big oil dude.

you should have seen the look on the faces of these 2 texans. there they were thinking they really hit the big time in this swanky hotel, just like their 'homie' bush - who these 2 adored.
how dare an a-rab spoil their ideas!!

anyway, for the next hour (yawn) these 2 texans just couldnt let it lie. they were FURIOUS this a-rab should even be in the same hotel, let alone the same country! they honestly wanted to shoot this old a-rab (looked about 70). what had the a-rab done to them? what did they know about his attitudes, beliefs or anything?

sorry - i just couldnt help that as an example of pure hatred based on nothing but low education, ignorance, and hatred of ones self and situation. how sophisticated you muslim haters are!!

 

[Haroki]

Quote from stu:

When you say proper religion has its place, do you mean peaceful religion has its place, or does one need to subject proper to misinterpretation in order to give it the meaning of another more suitable word?

The Koran is in no way unclear to make misinterpretation necessary. It is violent. But then, so is the Bible.

Please Stu - the Bible has a FEW violent passages, I'll grant you that. But some of them refer to very specific tribes that the wandering Israelites would encounter in the desert. But nothing I can recall approaches the level of aggression of the Qur'an.

On the other sideog the coin, they both appear to be peaceful. They both believe that their religion is the 1 'true' religion. They both say that they need to save the unbelievers. They both say that a person should not be forced to switch religions. Where they diverge, however, is Islam's treatment of non 'switchers' - look up dhimmi in Wikipedia. No where in the Bible will you see those kinds of treatment. And it really makes no difference how it is practiced today - the fact is, it's in the Qur'an, and some will use it as an excuse to treat others violently .

 

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from FredBloggs:


rearden - do you really think every non us muslim or non european muslim is some terrorist wannabe then? do you think these peoples lives revolves around hatred and the destruction of usa?

please.

No, their lives revolve around personal, family, and tribal <b>honor</b>. That includes extremely violent (and disproportionate, by Western standards) reactions to any little perceived insult thrown their way. I've had many interesting discussions with Arab Muslims- both those imprisoned by Israel, and those who were free. I do know more about this than you do.

In the Muslim Arab world, Bin Laden's terrorism has a higher percentage of support than the Democratic Party has in the U.S.

Koran huggers have tried to hit me with Pew Global's surveys, as evidence that terrorists do not represent the majority of Muslims. Let's take a closer look at the Pew Global data:


<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=792757>

Muslim Arabs compose the bulk of the world's terrorists, yet Pew
purposely picked the most Liberal & moderate of Muslim countries- and only one (Jordan) has an overwhelming Muslim Arab majority. The survey results from Lebanon are worthless, as the Lebanese population is divided about 70/30 between Muslims and Christians- and these groups live mostly segregated from each other. From the poll results, I think you can guess in which area of Lebanon this poll was conducted.

No survey results from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Syria- The places where the most Muslim Arabs (and Islamic terrorism supporters) can be found. Fortunately, some data from Saudi does exist, but not from Pew:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen/

Poll of Saudis shows wide support for bin Laden's views

Why do I claim that Bin Laden's terrorism enjoys even more support from Arab Muslims, than the Democratic (or Republican)party has from Americans? Only 18% of Jordanians surveyed had absolutely no confidence in Al-Qaida. Draw your own conclusions.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

 

[Haroki]

Quote from FredBloggs:

so what you saying? all you yanks arent a bunch of mutha f****in, nigga hatin', thickos? kind of proves my point then!

i dont think hamas is a good example due to the unfair circumstances palestinians are put under by israel. this would be like saying all irish people are terrorists just because sinn fein (ira) had a lot of support from irish voters. remember the ira? the ones who americans financed pre 'joke err i mean war on terror'

brining the poor kicked and wounded dog into the conversation is a shysters tactic. most of europe would support palestine any day over israel - but hey, were lucky cos we dont live in the usa so we know whats going on. (test - do you yanks know the latest number of deaths in iraq? clue - its 4x what you are told in your media)

fyi most of the arab world dont exactly help out palestine do they - sure the odd nutter outfit may throw them a bit of semtex here & there but so what - they dont give public support.

but lts not go there AGAIN!!!


rearden - do you really think every non us muslim or non european muslim is some terrorist wannabe then? do you think these peoples lives revolves around hatred and the destruction of usa?


please.

Uh, RM shows you evidence to back what he's saying, and somehow that proves YOUR point ??????????? LOL....

Again, tell us about N Ireland - why did they want to part from GB again? Did the Catholics there think they weren't being well represented by the govt????? And so the mostly Protestant GB 'put' them down ???

FYI - most of the Muslim world doesn't denounce the rioters either now, do they ???

 

[stu]

Quote from FredBloggs:
i think you will find muslims do indeed preach for peace. as does christianity, as do the jews (or at least most of them)

My question remains, why would you want to introduce anyone - using your own words - to " proper religion" with " its place in modern life", when that very same religion is full of violence and hatred?

Moslems and Christians may well preach for peace, but behind those people are the violent handbooks of their religion. The peace then does not emanate from the religions, which are stuffed full of terror, but rather from people who refuse violence as the basis for moral grounding.

Quote from FredBloggs:
this would be like saying all irish people are terrorists just because sinn fein (ira) had a lot of support from irish voters.

….. but is this anything like saying Americans hate Moslims.....?

Quote from FredBloggs:
sorry - i just couldnt help that as an example of pure hatred based on nothing but low education, ignorance, and hatred of ones self and situation. how sophisticated you muslim haters are!!

I don't like Moslems' religion, it is hateful. I don't like an American's or European's Christianity - for much the same reason. I don't like sinn fein - ira because its a cause based upon murderous violence.

But that is not the same as hating people.

Despite there being no "proper" religion, overall most people do not hate each other - so it is certainly not necessary to foist religion upon them so it may take " its place in modern life" in my view. Especially the religions of Islam and Christianity, which are so loaded with violence and hatred that one civilization cannot resist using it to hate the other with.

 

[stu]

Quote from Haroki:

Please Stu - the Bible has a FEW violent passages, I'll grant you that. But some of them refer to very specific tribes that the wandering Israelites would encounter in the desert. But nothing I can recall approaches the level of aggression of the Qur'an.

On the other sideog the coin, they both appear to be peaceful. They both believe that their religion is the 1 'true' religion. They both say that they need to save the unbelievers. They both say that a person should not be forced to switch religions. Where they diverge, however, is Islam's treatment of non 'switchers' - look up dhimmi in Wikipedia. No where in the Bible will you see those kinds of treatment. And it really makes no difference how it is practiced today - the fact is, it's in the Qur'an, and some will use it as an excuse to treat others violently .

Haroki, the Bible is full of violence threat and terror. Because it has nice bits in it, along with the Part Two Son of God New Testament public relations wake up re-vamp, does not diminish that fact.
Bibles, Qurans, Religions are not essential or necessary ingrediants in the deeds actions or meaning of the word peace. They are old political control war horses

I agree with you, the Qur'an is being used by some groups as an excuse for violence. It always has. But then so has the Bible.
Because it is no longer acceptable to do so, especially recognized in the more secular west, does not diminish in any way the hatred and violence contained within them both and the possibility for either to be used again any time as an excuse for more, new or different forms of terror and fear mongering.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Well, I would argue that what is being presented as 'Christianity' and 'Islam' by hate filled people, will of course be full of hatred.

While the pen may indeed by mightier than the sword, it generally comes down to someone who twists words for their own political agenda.

After all, it is the politics of religion that is the problem, not the practices and principles of a religion. Politics is after all, exercising power over the lives of others.

Imagine for just one moment, that when Mohammad spoke of the "infidel" and the need for "Jihad" he was not speaking in a political sense, but rather in a purely spiritual sense, i.e. the need for Muslims to purge the infidel within themselves, to wage Jihad against their own sinful nature, to achieve spiritual inner purity, not an outer worldly political situation. Even more probable is that he was speaking to the people of his tribe at his time, not intending for literalism to domiante future generations.

We have seen throughout history men abuse the words of both theists and atheists to rationalize their own violent political agendas, and inspire others to that end.

Quote from stu:

My question remains, why would you want to introduce anyone - using your own words - to " proper religion" with " its place in modern life", when that very same religion is full of violence and hatred?

Moslems and Christians may well preach for peace, but behind those people are the violent handbooks of their religion. The peace then does not emanate from the religions, which are stuffed full of terror, but rather from people who refuse violence as the basis for moral grounding.….. but is this anything like saying Americans hate Moslims.....?


I don't like Moslems' religion, it is hateful. I don't like an American's or European's Christianity - for much the same reason. I don't like sinn fein - ira because its a cause based upon murderous violence.

But that is not the same as hating people.

Despite there being no "proper" religion, overall most people do not hate each other - so it is certainly not necessary to foist religion upon them so it may take " its place in modern life" in my view. Especially the religions of Islam and Christianity, which are so loaded with violence and hatred that one civilization cannot resist using it to hate the other with.

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from FredBloggs:

we have forgotten the meaning of blasphemy because we in the west have mostly lost our morals and ethical standards, and of course OUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS WHERE CORE MORALS, ETHICS AND SENSE OF DUTY COME FROM.

Hi Fred,

I agree that something has been forgotten. I'm not sure if it is religion as currently sold. There is a worm in the apple of religion having to do with judgements about good and evil. Not one major religious mental structure has dealt with this item positively in a way that is able to prevent more violence.

We would do better to believe in annalingus as the solution for world peace. If more people went around-the-world, crossing religio-ethnic boundaries, the world would be a better place.

But alas, I'm sure there is something more profound that is being forgotten.

JohnnyK

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

After all, it is the politics of religion that is the problem, not the practices and principles of a religion. Politics is after all, exercising power over the lives of others.

What are the principles of religion? Oh, and what are the practices?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Religion's real and genuine message is about man's relationship to God, not man's relationship to man.

The way in which man relates to man is of course discussed, but the discussion is for the sake of a soul's relationship to God, so the bottom line is man's relationship to God, not man's relationship to man.

You don't know what religious practices are?

Quote from JohnnyK:

What are the principles of religion? Oh, and what are the practices?