POLL: Evolution vs. Creation by God

[Overnight]

...​

Think about it, say I offend you, maybe I stole your trading secrets it only makes sense that to have reconciliation I'd need to acknowledge what I did and tell you I was sorry. That wouldn't be something you would just let slide. God isn't going to let what we've done just go away without us acknowledging it AND submitting to His offer of being saved through Jesus.

Does that make sense? It does to me.

Well, as you say...

Think about it, say I offend you, maybe I stole your trading secrets it only makes sense that to have reconciliation I'd need to acknowledge what I did and tell you I was sorry. That wouldn't be something you would just let slide.

If I let it slide, that is me as a good Christian turning the other cheek against a slight, such as thievery.

So not only did you as the thief apologize, but I as the victim turned the other cheek and let it slide.

So what kind of paradox is God in now? So God must now punish one of us, because he is a jealous God. Which of us has done wrong? NEITHER! HELLO!

The bad man apologized (repented), the victim turned the other cheek (forgave), so what is God's problem now?

So by you saying that the victim will never let it slide, you are attempting to continue the cycle of this God-worshiping BS!

 

[ph1l]

I don't follow you. God isn't OK with the things people do that aren't good. Wait, do you mean, God is being patient with people while they add to their guilt before Him?
.

God might not like bad things people do, but He does nothing about it until those people are dead.

 

[studentofthemarkets]

Well, as you say...



If I let it slide, that is me as a good Christian turning the other cheek against a slight, such as thievery.

So not only did you as the thief apologize, but I as the victim turned the other cheek and let it slide.

So what kind of paradox is God in now? So God must now punish one of us, because he is a jealous God. Which of us has done wrong? NEITHER! HELLO!

The bad man apologized (repented), the victim turned the other cheek (forgave), so what is God's problem now?

So by you saying that the victim will never let it slide, you are attempting to continue the cycle of this God-worshiping BS!

You made a really good point! I think it is kind of like saying if Christians are suppose to be forgiving of people rather than taking vengeance when wronged, then why doesn't God just forgive everyone? Why does God require punishment for everything that He views as bad?

The quick answer to that is that God's character requires justice. God said that He is the "I AM THAT I AM" and we do not get to dictate to God what we want Him to be like. He declares,

"Vengeance is Mine; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; for their day of disaster is near, and their doom is coming quickly. "
Deuteronomy 32:35
​

Just as God, in Christ, has forgiven believers, Christians should show kindness and forgive others when they are wronged....but Christians also need to stand up for what is right.

First, the Biblical passage, excerpts from Matthew 5 for the context:

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
____

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
​

Commentaries don't hold the same weight as the Bible, of course, but I agree with this interpretation of what it means to "turn the other cheek."

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/5-39.htm​

But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil,.... This is not to be understood of any sort of evil, not of the evil of sin, of bad actions, and false doctrines, which are to be opposed; nor of the evil one, Satan, who is to be resisted; but of an evil man, an injurious one, who has done us an injury. We must not render evil for evil, or repay him in the same way; see James 5:6. Not but that a man may lawfully defend himself, and endeavour to secure himself from injuries; and may appear to the civil magistrate for redress of grievances; but he is not to make use of private revenge. As if a man should pluck out one of his eyes, he must not in revenge pluck out one of his; or should he strike out one of his teeth, he must not use him in the same manner; but patiently bear the affront, or seek for satisfaction in another way.

But whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also: which is to be understood comparatively, rather than seek revenge, and is directly contrary to the Jewish canons, which require, in such a case, a pecuniary fine (g).

"He that strikes his neighbour (which Maimonides explains, he that strikes his neighbour with his hand shut, about the neck) he shall give him a "sela", or "shekel": R. Judah says, in the name of R. Jose the Galilean, one pound: if he smite him (i.e. as Maimonides says, if he smite him with his double fist upon the face; or, as Bartenora, with the palm of his hand, "on the cheek", which is a greater reproach) he shall give him two hundred "zuzim"; and if he does it with the back of his hand, four hundred "zuzim".''

R. Isaac Sangari (h) manifestly refers to this passage of Christ's, when he says to the king he is conversing with,

"I perceive that thou up braidest us with poverty and want; but in them the great men of other nations glory: for they do not glory but in him, who said, "Whosoever smiteth thee thy right cheek, turn to him the left; and whosoever taketh away thy coat, give him thy cloak".''

(g) Misn. Bava Kama, c. 8. sect. 6. Vid. Maimon. & Bartenora in ib. (h) Sepher Cosri, Orat. 1. Sign. 113. fol. 56. 1.
​

 

[studentofthemarkets]

God might not like bad things people do, but He does nothing about it until those people are dead.

I don't know all of God's reasons for why He doesn't often intervene, but it seems that one reason is that by letting us do our own thing, He is allowing people to "show their true colors" so to speak.

Ecclesiastes 8:11
When the sentence for a crime is not speedily executed, the hearts of men become fully set on doing evil.

​

 

[Overnight]

I KNEW it was going to come back down to Biblical dribble.

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/poll-evolution-vs-creation-by-god.362399/page-14#post-5607199

Student, man, just use your own head and heart about the whole "turning the other cheek" thing. How can you not know what it means outside of the construct of God?

It means that if you are a kid in the playground, and some other kid kicks sand in your face, you walk away.

It means that if someone cuts you off on the highway while you drive your car, you just back off and do not engage in road-rage.

It means that if your spouse cheats on you, you do not go ballistic and try to destroy them out of jealousy. It is all about being a calm, peaceful person. And we do NOT NEED GOD TO BE A CALM PEACEFUL PERSON!

That's it, man!

"Turn to him the other cheek also" means to not fly off the handle, be calm, etc." It has nothing to do with God!

 

[studentofthemarkets]

I KNEW it was going to come back down to Biblical dribble.

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/poll-evolution-vs-creation-by-god.362399/page-14#post-5607199

Student, man, just use your own head and heart about the whole "turning the other cheek" thing. How can you not know what it means outside of the construct of God?

It means that if you are a kid in the playground, and some other kid kicks sand in your face, you walk away.

It means that if someone cuts you off on the highway while you drive your car, you just back off and do not engage in road-rage.

It means that if your spouse cheats on you, you do not go ballistic and try to destroy them out of jealousy. It is all about being a calm, peaceful person. And we do NOT NEED GOD TO BE A CALM PEACEFUL PERSON!

That's it, man!

"Turn to him the other cheek also" means to not fly off the handle, be calm, etc." It has nothing to do with God!

But it has EVERYTHING to do with God!

If I was a kid in a playground and a kid kicked sand in my face, the last thing I should do is get him back, that would just escalate the problem.

If I engage in road rage after being cut off....that becomes dangerous.

Umm, right, you wouldn't destroy (do you mean like kill?) your spouse for that....

But in EACH of those situations, there is a wrong done that should not be allowed to continue. The kid's mom or older sibling should make the sand kicker apologize and learn to get a long nicely....having him give one of his toys to the other kid might impress him to never do that again, and if the other kid likes the toy....maybe they would even end up as friends!

If someone cuts you off, and they do it enough times, they are more likely to be in an accident and that has it's own consequences....if it can be proven that the accident was caused by dangerous driving, there could be some legal ramifications as well!

And about the spouse cheating....that's a sin the Bible doesn't take lightly and Jesus even gave permission for divorce to the innocent spouse.

Each of those situations might be judged by 1. A parent, 2. The law/consequences 3. The innocent spouse who may even get a divorce.

God is a judge. We need Him to be a calm person, and guess what, HE IS! He doesn't throw fire at you if you say a bad word, or mistreat someone, etc. But that doesn't mean that He won't bring everything to light when the time is right, on Judgement Day.

Think of the deliberate restraint of God's anger against sin that He showed when people had blindfolded Jesus and were hitting Him. Jesus said for His followers to turn the other cheek, and He did it first...they continually slapped Him and much, much worse.

Whenever I'm tempted to think hell is too harsh of a punishment....yes, I am only human, and it is an overwhelming horror to think of eternal punishment.....I make myself remember that God knows how bad hell is and wants us to choose Him, and not go to hell, and He wants that so badly,

that He sent His Son,
Who is also fully God,
and became fully man,
and was willing to suffer extreme pain,
and be mocked

all because it was the only way for Justice to be served and us to be spared.

God doesn't force people to turn from their rebellion against Him, but He does try to get them to want to.

“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”
Hebrews 3:15
​

 

[stu]

That doesn't explain beauty, music, tastes, and other things that we enjoy. Evolution tries to explain things by survival of the fittest over long periods of time, but how can something like the ability to enjoy a complex musical composition be explained by survival? Instead it bears the mark of purposeful creativity and design...by God.

Evolution did not create the sound cycles that we arrange to make music. Cycles bear marks of mathematically-based design. It makes sense that God created sound cycles to be able to form recognizable patterns AND gave humans the ability to recognize and appreciate the beauty.

Think about it. A few thousand years ago people would have had the same ability to enjoy today's music, but few opportunities to ever hear complex musical arrangements. The ability to appreciate music hasn't evolved, it was already designed and implanted within each of us.

It is the knowledge of evolutionary principles and how neurons are triggered by natural body chemicals and physical input over long periods of time that explain the creation, existence and development of all those things that we enjoy in reality.

Math, beauty, music, prove the existence of math, beauty and music.
They do not prove the existence of God.

Think about it yourself. Were your imaginary God responsible for those things, then it must also be responsible for the hateful and disgusting stuff as well.

”All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.

Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom.
He made their horrid wings.

All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.

Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid,
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the sharks? He did!

All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.
Amen.
Monty Python's "All Things Dull and Ugly"​

​

 

[studentofthemarkets]

It is the knowledge of evolutionary principles

Jesus said to those who resisted Him and His truth, "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44

But my Savior is without blame:

Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrongdoing.
But you are pure and cannot stand the sight of evil.
You who are of purer eyes than to see evil and cannot look at wrong
Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, And Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor.
Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You cannot look favorably on wickedness.
Habakkuk 1:13, in many versions

Isaiah prophesied of Jesus and said this of Him:

He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in His death, although He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.
Isaiah 53:9

I'm on a break, or else I wouldn't be posting now, because it would be breaking my rules...not that anyone cares, but I am a rules-based trader and have to stick to my rules, and I did....since I'm on a break.

 

[themickey]

How great whites may have contributed to the extinction of the biggest shark, megalodon
ABC Science By science reporter Belinda Smith Posted 44 minutes ago

It had 276 teeth and grew longer than a bus. So why did megalodon die out around 4 million years ago?(Supplied: CSIRO)

With a mouth you could easily step through and serrated teeth as big as your hand, megalodon was the biggest shark the world's seen.

But around 4 million years ago, this formidable apex predator died out. What was behind its downfall?.......
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science...reat-white-shark-pliocene-diet-zinc/101112348

When God began to create heaven and earth, and the earth then was welter and waste and darkness over the deep and God's breath hovering over the waters, God said, "Let there be light." And there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And it was evening and it was morning, first day....

And God said, "Let the waters swarm with the swarm of living creatures and let fowl fly over the earth across the vault of the heavens." And God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that crawls, which the water had swarmed forth of each kind, and the winged fowl of each kind, and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the water in the seas and let the fowl multiply in the earth." And it was evening and it was morning, fifth day. And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures of each kind, cattle and crawling things and wild beasts of each kind. And so it was. And God made wild beasts of each kind and cattle of every kind and crawling things on the ground of each kind, and God saw that it was good.
And God said, "Let us make a human in our image, by our likeness, to hold sway over the fish of the sea and the fowl of the heavens and the cattle and the wild beasts and all the crawling things that crawl upon the earth.
And God created the human in his image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them.
And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and conquer it, and hold sway over the fish of the sea and the fowl of the heavens and every beast that crawls upon the earth." And God said, "Look, I have given you every seed-bearing plant on the face of all the earth and every tree that has fruit bearing seed, yours they will be for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and to all the fowl of the heavens and to all that crawls on the earth, which has the breath of life within it, the green plants for food." And so it was. And God saw all that He had done, and, look, it was very good. And it was evening and it was morning, the sixth day.......

Genesis said God created Heavens & Earth in 6 days.
According to geneology, this was no more than about 10,000 years ago.

Megaladon shark above died out they reckon about 4 million years ago.
There's a disconnect between bible and science, why is it?

 

[studentofthemarkets]

themickey said, There's a disconnect between bible and science, why is it?

Obviously, it's because scientists ignore the evidence that points to creation by God....



I'll get back to you with a more scientific answer. I also owe @ph1l a response to a post from months ago.

So, maybe it's time to get this thread back on topic to the subjection of evolution vs creation!