Poker and the Beginning Trader

Quote from traderNik:

hey illiquid

ice, given your description of this guy, there isn't much more to say - he couldn't beat you over time if his life depended on it. You just have to think of these calls as being the ones you dream about, the ones you play for.

And btw... in my own play, I have found that after I started to consciously force myself to say my position out loud (online anyway), my play improved a lot.
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Here's two for the books. I can't recall being so outraged particularly the first hand ( 2/4 table - NL)

1. Ice = pocket Ks in M1
field reduced to one other player across from me

shorthanded game.

Flop is x x Ah.

4th is also a small heart

A-hole is betting big but I have a feeling he has -0-. He raised PF but only 2x BB. So I think he's making a play; with nothing I gotta ask in hindsight how would anyone bet like this needing runner runner runner maybe to win, with an ACE on the board .

So anyway, I call him to 4th street, and now we are all in (150BB).

Showdown:

10/3h
I have Ks

The river comes and its a small card, BUT A HEART. He takes the pot down with this crappy play. He then leaves.

I hate to sound like this, but damn if I don't honestly believe these online sites are indeed rigged and do IN FACT have house players. This hand and him leaving after ONE hand is so fking suspicious it stinks. But most disappointing is that I called him down CORRECTLY to an "all in" and he still takes down the pot when 9 out of 10 times a 10/3 won't even be in the pot much less betting all his chips in the middle, by 4th street with NO improvement and a CALLER in heads-up, AND AN ACE on the board.

I cannot recall being so pissed, even in trading.

Anyone seen anything even close to ths b.s hand . I sure cannot recall anything so outrageous! The online poker sites reward the chumps for BAD play. Unreal.

Had he had the ACE I would have said 'mea culpa' - Too good.

2. Same table. different player in last position goes all in PF against myself and another player who happen to both have Ace/King only mine are suited.

The bettor has 7s unsuited!!

The flop comes, no improvement. 4th and 5th are rags and he takes down the pot from two players.

For me, it's hands like that where two consecutive players are both dealt Ace/K that make me concerned about the integrity of online poker sites. It's like setting up hands the will likely get action and larger rakes. Maybe its coincidence.

regards,

Ice
:cool:
 
Quote from peterfigliozzi:

You gotta bet that flop in NL, period. 1/4 to 1/2 the pot. Not only for this hand, but also to set up future hands. Plus, you have to learn where you stand in the current hand. Since you check the flop and he makes a big bet on the turn, you have no idea if it's a bluff or what. However if he just calls a flop bet and then makes a big bet on the turn you know either he cool-called after a big flop for him or that he just hit something on the turn, and that your are beat in either case. It then becomes a question of pot-odds. You do not slow-play TPTK ever, even with a draw to the nuts. At least I don't. You slow play a monster flop that would appear scary to other players, in order to let them draw 2nd best hand. E.g. Kc Ks 9s when you hold KK. Check to the river and let an ace or spade come down, someone hits a straight or trips, etc. Then your 1/4 to 1/2 pot bet on the river will look like a bluff.
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thanks for the input... good analysis.


I am real happy with my play lately, but so many suck-out from outrageous hands that it's almost inexplicable to handicap the crap play of some players online. I have been calling guys down last four days, and if it was on TV I'd be a modern poker hero by now. Most of these have been good calls. :D

But hands like I mention above are just impossible to gauge. You do the correct thing, by calling a guy you place on a bluff and you have a made hand of Ks also btw... and he takes it down ANYWAY by catching r/r/r to flush

:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Quote from Don Bright:

As you guys may know, we have several professional poker players among our traders. Chris "Jesus" Ferguson is the most well known (www.fulltiltpoker.com), and my brother won the Ultimate Poker Challenge (on TV back in Jan), and is entering a $50,000 cash buy-in tournament at the Plaza on May 16th... that should be fun to watch (the "tournament" players, playing with their own money).

Anyway, we hosted a hold-em game at our last expo in Anaheim, and did a discussion showing the similarities between trading and poker. You may find this of some interest:

http://www.stocktrading.com/tradingandpoker.htm

All the best!

Don
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Well, it appears that most of the fabled WPT'ers and other name poker TV circuit players got a little squeamish (without their backers) about actually stepping up with their own $50,000 buy-in for the start of the World Poker Classic No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em Tournament semi-finals today at the Plaza Hotel and Casino in Vegas.

The televised (for summer airing) Big Balls Finals-only table will be held tomorrow, at Noon (PT) in the Plaza's Card Room.

Bob Bright is sure gonna hate missing the final hour of trading! :D
Here's encouragement for smart playing and a little luck that he at least partly make$ up for it at the poker table! ;-)
 
Quote from NYSEProTrader:

Well, it appears that most of the fabled WPT'ers and other name poker TV circuit players got a little squeamish (without their backers) about actually stepping up with their own $50,000 buy-in for the start of the World Poker Classic No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em Tournament semi-finals today at the Plaza Hotel and Casino in Vegas.

The televised (for summer airing) Big Balls Finals-only table will be held tomorrow, at Noon (PT) in the Plaza's Card Room.

Bob Bright is sure gonna hate missing the final hour of trading! :D
Here's encouragement for smart playing and a little luck that he at least partly make$ up for it at the poker table! ;-)
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Update: Several of us went ahead and entered the final table, along with a couple of "outsiders" - it will be taped for TV, and we have Bob's 65th birthday party immediately afterwards.

It's too bad the Chris Ferguson and the boys have been set up down in New Orleans with the other WPT'ers. He called yesterday to give Bob some last minute tips....but since I'm in the game too, how hard can it all be.

We have a columnist from CardPlayer magazine in the game, and a couple of local pro's...it should be fun.

Bright Trading is sponsoring.

Any and all locals are welcome to come on down for free drinks...

We moved the start time to 2PM local (Have to wait for the market to close, duh...)... :-)

Don
 
I started multitabling the 1/2 limit on partypoker a few weeks ago, and I'm finally beginning to see some consistent results. Seems like playing several tables at once has immediate advantages once you get used to making faster decisions, and I find myself playing alot more patiently overall. I used to get bored after playing for an hour or so on one table, which lead to sloppy play and loosening hand selection for the sake of action. I still can only play for an hour or so before my mind starts to wander, but at least now I'm playing 2-3x as many hands.

Anyone else find their bankrolls are better off once you started multitabling? For those playing higher limits, do you find yourself more profitable playing say 4 2/4 tables at once versus 2 3/6 etc? Thoughts appreciated.
 
I find that once I pass the .25/.50 tables I never win so I gave up and just stick to piker tables for fun. I play on pokerstars.com though, maybe the players are more skilled on that site :confused: or I just suck.
 
Quote from ang_99:

I find that once I pass the .25/.50 tables I never win so I gave up and just stick to piker tables for fun. I play on pokerstars.com though, maybe the players are more skilled on that site :confused: or I just suck.
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I have been playing a lot at UltimateBet (UB), although I'm still at the 0.50/1.00 limit mostly, sometimes 0.25/0.50. So far, I'm averaging about +2-4 BB/hour. Occasionally I do 1/2 but usually only if I know my mind is really in the game. If I'm just killing time or fooling around, I do 0.25/0.50 so the damage isn't too bad if I miss something or my concentration flags. Multi-tabling is OK, but if you get a table full of tricky players you can do less than optimally because they bluff you out, and you don't have the time or concentration on any one particular table to know exactly what is happening and how to counteract it.

I read a lot of the Sklansky books and was doing well mostly, but I started to stagnate until I added some game theory and trickiness to my play. This is because after a while, everybody knows you are playing premium hands and you will find that they are not guessing very much what you have. You will also get burned a lot when raising high cards and rags flop.

So, I added a couple wrinkles such as always raise an unraised pot when your hand is holding the Queen of clubs regardless of position or the other card. I also started limping with raising hands like AK when both cards are black cards, etc. Occasionally raise pairs such as 8's or 7's. After implementing these changes, I found my results were much improved. I also quit over-defending my blinds which was usually just costing a lot of money.

I was also wondering how other people rate PokerStars versus UB versus Party Poker as far as quality of players, etc.
 
Quote from illiquid:


Anyone else find their bankrolls are better off once you started multitabling? For those playing higher limits, do you find yourself more profitable playing say 4 2/4 tables at once versus 2 3/6 etc? Thoughts appreciated.
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It only makes sense to multitable. If you have an edge it makes sense to increase the number of contracts up to the point where it starts to cause problems. It exactly the same with poker, imo.
I am referring to limit games only.
 
Quote from illiquid:

Anyone else find their bankrolls are better off once you started multitabling? For those playing higher limits, do you find yourself more profitable playing say 4 2/4 tables at once versus 2 3/6 etc? Thoughts appreciated.
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Four tables of 2/4 should be a little more profitable than two 3/6's, as you'd expect from the numbers. You lose a little off your game from the extra tables, but the 2/4 game is also easier to beat.

When I first started, I played one table for a while, and yes it gets boring. I was playing chess on my other monitor just to keep me from trying to play too many hands. (It was good for my poker results but bad for the chess).

Multitabling solved this problem. I went to two, then three, and after about 8 months upped it to four. I currently play four tables of 10/20. Four is about as high as I want to go for now, but I know people who play multiple sites at once so they can get 8 or 12 tables at once. :eek:

Some say too many tables hurts your ability to learn and move up in limits. I guess everyone will be a little different as far as how many they can handle. My priority is to keep moving up. I will go to the 15/30 next month if I have the bankroll I want by then (about $15K).
 
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