Poker and the Beginning Trader
- Thread starter FanOfFridays
- Start date
Long time no see this thread. I have changed my mind about online ring games or perhaps the online ring games are changing. It seems to me that collusion is increasing. I have seen too many strange calls and raises lately. I have been playing poker for many years so I dont think Im paranoid. When you see things that dont make sense way beyond the normal sequence of things you start to wonder. I still enjoy playing the tournaments.
depends a lot on bank roll in relation to that of others and the blinds in relation to my bank roll, as well as position and as you mentioned the styles of the other players. If I'm in good position I'll take gambles playing J7u and such. Otherwise I'll stick to suited connectors or stuff like K9s, A10u, etc. In smaller games, I'll obviously play crappier hands but will be out on the flop unless I have something playable, 1 card draw, or if it's very cheap or I sense weakness. It's a complex game, but unless you're playing against world class people, your opponents will make plenty of mistakes. That's the biggest difference I see between poker and trading, trading markets you're up against the biggest, best, and brightest. Playing poker, you decide who your opponents are and they're sitting right in front of you with their intentions in full view. Learn to calculate odds (outs/pot/implied/etc.) and you'll already be leaps and bounds ahead of most players who have no 'ruler' by which to measure whether, for example, a bet is big/small or a raise is justified (this is your greatest edge).
edit: here's an example of picking up edge over your opponents using pot odds
you have 10Ju in the pocket, flop is 89A rainbow. 7 or Q will make the straight for you, let's say it's you vs. one other guy. You see 5 cards (flop plus hole) out of 52, and any of the 4 7s or 4 Qs will make your straight, so you have 8 outs out of 47 cards (17% chance of making the straight on the turn and approximately the same on the river, so 34% chance of getting the straight by the end of the hand if calculated on the flop). The pot is currently 100 and your opponent bets 10, calling the 10 will give you 10:110 (R:R), however you have a ~30% chance of hitting the nuts at this point, so you can feel free to raise until your R:R is 1:3, for example a raise to 40 would give you 40:110, if called even better 40:150. This is straight odds playing, you of course need to incorporate other factors as well into your play such as knowledge of the player (is he loose/tight) and how much money you have (if you have $200, you might consider going all-in, if you have $2000 then the play described above is much more prudent). You get the idea
Hey illiquid
IMO, it's usually a matter of being patient and playing tight and jumping on your good opportunities, letting the fish make their almost unbelievable calls. It does depend on the limit, though. At low-limit, I personally have no other way to win. I have played some single table tournaments at the $30 level where things are clearly different from the .50/1.00 ring games.
igOr's description of pot odds is good and it's a guarantee that the majority of low limit players are not making these calculations. The idea of implied odds is somewhat more involved, in that your call might be based on the likelihood of your opponent calling a subsequent all-in no matter what hand he has, which happens a lot.
There is a lot of good discussion at
http://www.twoplustwo.com/
Re: the collusion issue - I can understand your feelings, easyrider. The things you see at these tables are sometimes beyond comprehension. I have never played a live NL ring game so I don't know whether it happens like this in real life. It does seem that hands at Party low-limit tables are designed to get as many guys in for their entire stack as possible. The regular players at 2+2 scoff at this contention, of course. Nicholas Taleb would probably laugh at the suggestion that these incredible beats cannot happen by themselves and that someone must be seeing the cards. The one question I do have is about props. Party freely admit that they use props. But of course they say that their house players have no advantage over the regular Joe. I am trying really hard to believe this. At any rate, I wonder - with '35000' players at the tables, what is the need for props??
Of course collusion exists. The question is, how much is there, and does it significantly alter the likelihood that any particular player can play winning poker?
IMO, it's usually a matter of being patient and playing tight and jumping on your good opportunities, letting the fish make their almost unbelievable calls. It does depend on the limit, though. At low-limit, I personally have no other way to win. I have played some single table tournaments at the $30 level where things are clearly different from the .50/1.00 ring games.
igOr's description of pot odds is good and it's a guarantee that the majority of low limit players are not making these calculations. The idea of implied odds is somewhat more involved, in that your call might be based on the likelihood of your opponent calling a subsequent all-in no matter what hand he has, which happens a lot.
There is a lot of good discussion at
http://www.twoplustwo.com/
Re: the collusion issue - I can understand your feelings, easyrider. The things you see at these tables are sometimes beyond comprehension. I have never played a live NL ring game so I don't know whether it happens like this in real life. It does seem that hands at Party low-limit tables are designed to get as many guys in for their entire stack as possible. The regular players at 2+2 scoff at this contention, of course. Nicholas Taleb would probably laugh at the suggestion that these incredible beats cannot happen by themselves and that someone must be seeing the cards. The one question I do have is about props. Party freely admit that they use props. But of course they say that their house players have no advantage over the regular Joe. I am trying really hard to believe this. At any rate, I wonder - with '35000' players at the tables, what is the need for props??
Of course collusion exists. The question is, how much is there, and does it significantly alter the likelihood that any particular player can play winning poker?
Thanks for the tips, I'm slowly learning as I go. I was tempted to play in the NL ring table at the Taj last weekend but didn't have the guts to sit down with them. As for poker vs trading, amazing how in the market, lose or win a few grand aint no biggie, then sit down at a poker table and get cold sweat when raised $20 lol sigh. Meanwhile I guess I'll stay at 3-6 for now and slowly build up my poker bankroll (and some balls at the table too hah).
One more question for igor -- how do you usually play bullets or pocket K's in NL? I seem to never get anyone to play with me when I make a decent raise first in.
One more question for igor -- how do you usually play bullets or pocket K's in NL? I seem to never get anyone to play with me when I make a decent raise first in.
Again, it all depends. But unless I'm feeling desperate and short-stacked, I will simply call or make a small raise preflop. Let the flop come and try to get a read on whoever is in, chances are you still have the top hand. If you flop trips or perhaps better, for god's sake PLAY IT SLOW. The guy with the pocket 8s or the one who flopped a pair of As or Ks will be feeling cocky when you sit there contemplating for 30 seconds and finally simply call. This is where you make your killings.
[Of course collusion exists. The question is, how much is there, and does it significantly alter the likelihood that any particular player can play winning poker? [/B][/QUOTE]
In two separate games one day apart I was playing n/l and a player called my all in on the flop with 5, 8 offsuit. The turn was a 5 and the river was an 8. The next day the exact same thing happened. Same cards. Both times I had pocket aces. Im used to bad beats but this kind of thing is a little hard to believe.
In two separate games one day apart I was playing n/l and a player called my all in on the flop with 5, 8 offsuit. The turn was a 5 and the river was an 8. The next day the exact same thing happened. Same cards. Both times I had pocket aces. Im used to bad beats but this kind of thing is a little hard to believe.
Congrats on getting pocket aces so frequently. You must play more than me.
Which casino, if you don't mind me asking?
Which casino, if you don't mind me asking?
Worst cards I'd go would be J9 suited, Q9 suited, 7 6 suited, 10 9 off suit. Maybe even a 7 5 suited if in the small blind or on the button. On a flush draw, Kx .. again all these would be in mid late to late position or discounted by blinds. If I'm first to act, I can't risk being raised since I wanted to get in cheap. Preflop raises: AQ offsuit or better, pocket Qs or better.
Starting hands are one thing, where you make money is by attacking the pot when your flop comes and therefore maximizing wins.
http://www.fhmus.com/girls/covergirls/277/
When I thought I was an OK trader, I could hit the wrong button and still get out with commish+. But now that I actually make a small amount of money, it's part of my rules to bail immediately when I hit the wrong button - it's death to wait (for me). And it's one of my harder-to-follow rules.
