Poker and the Beginning Trader

hii

Keep us updated on your progress. I have no doubt the lower limit games can be beat by anyone with sufficient discipline because Im doing it but I dont see making a living at it unless you are very good and can move up to the higher limits. Most professional limit players average maybe one or two big bets an hour over the long run. How much an hour would you consider a good living? $40 minimum. Watch some of these games. They do not look easy to me. Of course if you are a good no limit player the sky is the limit. As a pleasant profitable hobby, however, you gotta luv it.
 
On pokerparadise they have a number of poker games to choose from. Hold Em was a good introduction to the game, but I'm thinking 7 Card Stud might be more to my liking. It also depends on your mood at the moment. Hold Em produces more consistently exaggerated winning hands. Crazy Pineapple is probably more challenging, which can be fun, and frustrating at the same time.

My expectation of making money playing poker for the moment is very low. If I ever do use it for profit more than fun, it will be once I've got a good chunk of money to play with, and enough experience to play it with. My feelings towards stocks at this moment is the same, I may come back to trading when I've got a larger block of money than I can expect to make an increasing profit from through individual games.

My expectation of making money is from Baccarat. I won't kill this goose that lays golden eggs by getting any more specific. But that's where I see my opportunity to build up funds that I may later play higher stakes poker and trade stocks with.
 
hii a_ooiioo_a

Forget bacarat. There is no betting scheme that will overcome the house advantage on this game.

The only two winning casino games are blackjack and poker and in blackjack you will eventually get barred if you are any good.

I aso heard that there are some progressive slot machines and video poker machiness that can give positive expectation situations if the jackpot is hifh enough but the capital requirements wouldd probably be excessive and the probability of winning at all would be small.
 
I started studying hold'em because the rules of poker and trading seemed very much aligned (patience, being aggressive when you have the cards, knowing when to fold, etc).

I've only played twice so far with real money, both times in casino environments, and learned alot so far (my first game was a 5-10 at the mohegan sun, and I was parted from my money quite quickly). It was interesting to see that even to my inexperienced eye, the people playing at the 2-4 tables at the Taj Mahal were for the most part the ideal opponents described in low-limit poker books, namely, loose-passive players that paid to see virtually every flop. Almost all were happy to just check the last 2 rounds when it was obvious the flop missed everybody, and no one raised pre-flop unless they had face pocket pairs. It's an exercise in patience in these games, even when you're seeing high pair or ace-high take pot after pot, but if you stay tight and aggressive (theoretically) the chips should eventually come your way.
 
Quote from traderNik:



Yes, feeling a little better after reading the Jones book, but I will have to read it about 20 more times to fully digest the ideas. I am going to be at the tourney next Saturday - never played at that particular site but I will look for you.

I like Jones' description of low-limit games as "No Fold-Em Hold-Em", i.e. you have 6+ players seeing every flop. After observing some of the high limit and no limit games, I can see how true that is.
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y, once you indentify what kind of game your playing, thats a big part of the battle and then adjust accordingly, and to different players of course too. read is good, but no better subsitute than PLAY PLAY PLAY, just like in trading if you lose a big pot or get an ass kicking you'll pay closer attention to and learn faster from analyzing, OK what did i do wrong. thats whats great about these online sites, you can play many hands cheap,its a good drill, POKER calestentics.

see you in the pokerroom
 
Quote from hii a_ooiioo_a:

I think they have those tournament tables every day. What is different with the saturday one?

So, does just cost $1 to play, and winner takes all?
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there is a cap of 800 players and ususally its pretty full, so you are playing for about 800 in entry fees, plus pokerroom kicks in 2500 to the kitty, so 3000 or so, pays top 15.
risk=$1, cant beat it. if you have card rooms where you live or routinely got vegas or AC, etc... look for these specials b/c they do them a lot. i.e. in Arizona they always do like a 10 buy in, maybe a 5 re-buy, an dhte house adds several thousand, its of course very competitive but great; i think you can learn the game faster too, at least other aspects of it,in the tourney format. and then there is no limit which is a blast, but thats another thread.
 
what makes hold em unique is your playing more the person than the cards or your hand, thus you can win pots and have winning nights on a below average run of cards moreso than other poker games. like you guys were saying though profit expectancy on the lower limits are extremely limited. persoanlly i found 100/day on i.e 2/4 is damn good. consistently i cold pull about 50 or 60 or so from these games. and when you goto the higher limits, esp at 6/12 imo the talent level really jumps. i always liekd 4/8.
thing about trading is your always sitting at the big boys table, although wha do you guys think as far trading styles and different markets what they are akin too in poker.

i.e. swing trading is a 2/4
intraday trading is a 6/12
futures/currencies/options, etc 10/20

i dont know, maybe thats dumb analogy to even think of, but thats how i always looked and approached it.
 
Quote from illiquid:

and I was parted from my money quite quickly). It was interesting to see that even to my inexperienced eye, the people playing at the 2-4 tables at the Taj Mahal were for the most part the ideal opponents described in low-limit poker books, namely, loose-passive players that paid to see virtually every flop. Almost all were happy to just check the last 2 rounds when it was obvious the flop missed everybody, and no one raised pre-flop unless they had face pocket pairs. It's an exercise in patience in these games, even when you're seeing high pair or ace-high take pot after pot, but if you stay tight and aggressive (theoretically) the chips should eventually come your way.
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illiquid - thanks for your honesty. I hope to make it to some of these brick and mortart card rooms soon - here in Canada there are very very few games(maybe private games, don't know anything about those).

Ron - no, that analogy might not be too far off - the difference between swing and daytrading should be comparable to the 2/4 vs. 10/20 - How many newbie daytraders have gone in and had their head handed to them? I am willing to bet :) that it is less than the number of traders who lost their heads swing trading. Also, you can lose your money a hell of a lot faster at the big tables. The smaller tables give you the opportunity to keep some of your capital long enough to quit making the glaringly obvious beginner mistakes and maybe have a chance at turning the corner. Yes, I know it's a loose analogy (i.e. you can blow a lot swing trading positions that are not in keeping with good risk management rules).
 
yeah, thats what i think to; a newbie could swing trade and do the ol' risk 1% of capital and not get hurt too bad trading 100s and comfortably watching the wiggles with a stopper, but once you intraday trade with 1000s you need to negotiate "higher stakes 6/12, 10/20" type moves, i.e shakeouts, read tape better, etc...
 
The 3 pm tournament on pokerroom every day except saturday is a play money tournament, but it pays real money prizes! First prize is $50, and the entrance fee is 205 play money dollars. (You can get up to 2,000 play money each day from their refill page).

You know where I'm going to be at 3 pm each day now!

They also pay cash daily for top ten rank in day's player points (which you get for sitting in real money poker hands, or for dollar amount played on Blackjack and Baccarat). If you could manage to sit in about 1,000 hands of real money poker (even if you fold), or play about $5,000 on Blackjack or Baccarat, you could win $250 real money prize for #1 player points rank. This could be more profitable than actually getting skilled at playing.
 
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