Please ban ZZZzzzzzzz. He debases every thread in which he participates.

[annaland]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Interesting observation on your part. Allow me to explain. ZZZzzzzzzz is gratuitously abrasive. He looks for a fight, and where there isn't one he makes one. He presents an argument, gets cornered, and then, like a reptile in a bad dream, counters with a complete absence of logic. He does this knowingly. He then proceeds to become abusive. RM has captured ZZZzzzzzzz's essence in his well-written posts.

You referred to my poll wherein I asked if marketsurfer was a moron. Kindly reread the opening post of that thread to understand my motivation. However much you may like marketsurfer, you know full well that he obfuscates and tries to come across as knowing far more than he actually does, at least on ET. At times, he comes across as downright vacuous. I guess I am also not immune to BS. Just visit his trend thread to get a feel for his slippery nature, or my exchanges with him about Larry Williams, and judge for yourself. Regarding LW, he challenged me to do my own research because I believed LW oozed snake oil. Well, I did so, by speaking with an enforcement attorney at the NFA. That enforcement attorney verified what Gallacher wrote in his book about LW. He also advised how such records could be readily obtained. Marketsurfer accused me of lying. I did not. I told him to either call for himself (it takes a bit of doing to actually get an enforcement attorney on the phone, but it can be done because I did it), or at least go to the library where the damning evidence can be found in full display. Your marketsurfer simply just chose to ignore me and the effort I undertook to meet his challenge. Yeah, I was upset by the blatant obfuscation. Subsequently, he wanted me to talk directly to LW to get the “facts.” Anna, let’s get real, eh?

And his silliness continued well after the poll. At the time of the last two index futures front month rollovers, surf made it painfully clear that he did not know what was going on and that he most likely did not engage in the YM trades reported in his journal thread. Most people seemed to agree. Marketsurfer likes to engage in BS, and I like to call people on it. It’s my nature. Does that really make me a bad guy? I’d like to think not.

As for my occasionally being hostile towards certain others, if you take the time to consider the context, I think you will find that I was only responding in kind.

I despise ZZZzzzzzzz because he is an evil bastard. However, I am also not immune to arrogance, obfuscation and bullshit. That’s why marketsurfer occasionally finds himself on my radar. Again, it’s just my nature. To be candid, I suspect that marketsurfer is probably a nice guy in real life. Aside from the offending posts, his other posts just strike me that way. But when I sense bullshit, I have to call it.

Thanks for the explanation; however, I feel that motivation behind similar acts has little to no relevance to an intentional act. Furthermore, I’m not certain about the LW drama, but I am sure that the drama you refer to on Surf’s thread was AFTER your initiation of the moron thread. Using ex post data to argue ex ante motivation is rather weak, don’t you think? Regardless, I’m not here to argue, just here because “when I sense bullshit, I have to call it”.


Regards,
al

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from annaland:

Thanks for the explanation; however, I feel that motivation behind similar acts has little to no relevance to an intentional act. Furthermore, I’m not certain about the LW drama, but I am sure that the drama you refer to on Surf’s thread was AFTER your initiation of the moron thread. Using ex post data to argue ex ante motivation is rather weak, don’t you think? Regardless, I’m not here to argue, just here because “when I sense bullshit, I have to call it”.


Regards,
al

Kindly refer to the 3rd paragraph of my post which you quoted:

Quote from Thunderdog:

...And his silliness continued well after the poll. At the time of the last two index futures front month rollovers, surf made it painfully clear that he did not know what was going on and that he most likely did not engage in the YM trades reported in his journal thread. Most people seemed to agree. Marketsurfer likes to engage in BS, and I like to call people on it. It’s my nature. Does that really make me a bad guy? I’d like to think not...

As you can see, I clearly noted that the "drama" in surfer's journal thread, which you referred to, occurred after the poll in question. I was trying to convey that the BS was there both before and after the poll. Was I really not that clear?

As for your remark that "motivation behind similar acts has little to no relevance to an intentional act," you are overlooking something. When ZZZzzzzzzz goes on a rampage, he does so solely because he is malicious. He has proven this time and again. He does it for the sake of doing it. He is not outwardly provoked. On the other hand, while I have been a bit aggressive occasionally, it is typically because of someone else's obvious arrogance or bullshit. It usually follows a polite explanation, and is sans the circular logic that our ZZZzzzzzzz is so apt to engage in. Stated differently, it is not without cause which I think most people here would find reasonable. And it is not automatic, because it characteristically follows a polite exchange. Go ahead and look at the posts if you feel so inclined. There is a world of difference between ZZZzzzzzzz and me, and you very well know it. True, there are some people for whom I have immediate and automatic contempt and I make no effort to hide my opinion. This is because they have already shown themselves over time to be congenital assholes. Therefore, I feel no compunction about sidestepping the polite-first protocol. But people like surf are not in that group. As I wrote earlier, I suspect that surfer is probably a nice guy. However, BS remain BS no matter who produces it.

Trusting you will find this satisfactory.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Strutter:

http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103204&perpage=6&pagenumber=1


He wasn't banned 3 months ago when you called for it and he isn't banned now, so give it a rest ok?

If you actually click on the link you provided, you will note that it refers to a poll wherein I asked other members if they believed ZZZzzzzzzz was an asshole. This thread, while related, is different. I'm afraid that I can't explain it any better than that. Sorry.

 

[Spydertrader]

"All you guys care about is Page Views and Polls. You should all just Leave ZZZzzzzzzz Alone!!!

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1770481>

 

[annaland]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Kindly refer to the 3rd paragraph of my post which you quoted:

As you can see, I clearly noted that the "drama" in surfer's journal thread, which you referred to, occurred after the poll in question. I was trying to convey that the BS was there both before and after the poll. Was I really not that clear?

As for your remark that "motivation behind similar acts has little to no relevance to an intentional act," you are overlooking something. When ZZZzzzzzzz goes on a rampage, he does so solely because he is malicious. He has proven this time and again. He does it for the sake of doing it. He is not outwardly provoked. On the other hand, while I have been a bit aggressive occasionally, it is typically because of someone else's obvious arrogance or bullshit. It usually follows a polite explanation, and is sans the circular logic that our ZZZzzzzzzz is so apt to engage in. Stated differently, it is not without cause which I think most people here would find reasonable. And it is not automatic, because it characteristically follows a polite exchange. Go ahead and look at the posts if you feel so inclined. There is a world of difference between ZZZzzzzzzz and me, and you very well know it. True, there are some people for whom I have immediate and automatic contempt and I make no effort to hide my opinion. This is because they have already shown themselves over time to be congenital assholes. Therefore, I feel no compunction about sidestepping the polite-first protocol. But people like surf are not in that group. As I wrote earlier, I suspect that surfer is probably a nice guy. However, BS remain BS no matter who produces it.

Trusting you will find this satisfactory.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Nevertheless, it’s a fine line and it takes a lot more than that to change my mind. However, I will kindheartedly downgrade you from asshole to polite prick and we can go on agreeing to disagree.

I’m sure ET will provide a pale-faced counsel to evaluate your case with the typically profound arguments of yey or ney.

 

[Mercor]

Its very clear , people who have the letter "Z" in their nickname are less intelligent then the rest of us.

We need to segerate the "Z" people. Put them together in their own thread ,at the end of the page.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from annaland:

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Nevertheless, it’s a fine line and it takes a lot more than that to change my mind. However, I will kindheartedly downgrade you from asshole to polite prick and we can go on agreeing to disagree.

I’m sure ET will provide a pale-faced counsel to evaluate your case with the typically profound arguments of yey or ney.

Splendid.

As an aside, may I ask why I should willingly accept bullshit and circular logic rather than call it out when I see it displayed in full form? And when the offending party then chooses to either ignore a valid question or tries to obfuscate his way out of a corner, why is it more appropriate to just let it go? Why is it implicitly less acceptable to you that the bullshitter just come clean? And since polite, albeit pointed, discourse fails to work, why am I the bad guy when I say "Bullshit!" How is it that the obfuscating bullshitter gets to wear the white hat here?

 

[ChiBondKing]

Britney Spears told me to tell you guys:

LEAVE Z ALOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

*SHRIEK*

*ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE*

 

[annaland]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Splendid.

As an aside, may I ask why I should willingly accept bullshit and circular logic rather than call it out when I see it displayed in full form? And when the offending party then chooses to either ignore a valid question or tries to obfuscate his way out of a corner, why is it more appropriate to just let it go? Why is it implicitly less acceptable to you that the bullshitter just come clean? And since polite, albeit pointed, discourse fails to work, why am I the bad guy when I say "Bullshit!" How is it that the obfuscating bullshitter gets to wear the white hat here?

No.

You shouldn't accept bullshit and you should call it when you see it. However, my point is, was and will be that calling bullshit doesn't entail starting moron threads. Whatever your motive was, starting those types of threads is a down right obnoxious thing to do. Put differently, I'm not arguing your motive, just your action. Does that answer your concern?

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from annaland:

No.

You shouldn't accept bullshit and you should call it when you see it. However, my point is, was and will be that calling bullshit doesn't entail starting moron threads. Whatever your motive was, starting those types of threads is a down right obnoxious thing to do. Put differently, I'm not arguing your motive, just your action. Does that answer your concern?

Aside from my mounting frustration with his conduct from time to time, or perhaps because of it, I wanted to determine if there were other, like-minded people here at ET. A poll seemed to be a fairly efficient, if not necessarily accurate or reliable, means of doing so. And, as luck would have it, an overwhelming majority of respondents agreed with me. I can't help but wonder if you are more upset by the poll or by the poll results. In all candor, I don't really think surfer is a moron. But he certainly chooses to act like one from time to time. Doing so comes at a price.