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People with degrees making 13 bucks an hour
- Thread starter KINGOFSHORTS
- Start date
Youâre an idiot. Prices would be the same (adjusted for true inflation) if the income gap and the trade deficit were the same. Just because wages are low doesnât mean prices will be so long as there are a few at the top collecting all the money or if the money is continually being sent overseas.Quote from KINGOFSHORTS:
Why not? IF we get 1970 wages, prices will have to drop to 1970 price points.
13 bucks an hour with a 4 year degree means a regression to the past.
Quote from Misthos:
100 years ago the world population was a lot less than it is now, and technology barely replaced manual labor. 90% of the world 100 years ago was living the same way people lived 300 years ago. True de-industrialization in the US accelerated in the late 1960s and early 70s.
So... global trade kool-aid drinker are you?
You think it was wise introducing 4 Billion people into the global marketplace from Asia that are willing slaves? That will work for one dollar a day and take shit from their government? That will put up with their kids getting cancer at ten years old because the factory in town doesn't have to comply with the environmental laws the Western countries have? You want our middle-lower classes competing with that?
Oh wait... we can outsource all those jobs because we're "smart." We'll replace those lost jobs by creating an asset based debt driven economy and tap on computer keys all day. Instead of factory lines, we'll have our people working in seas of cubicles. We'll have lawyers, paralegals, secretaries, insurance salespeople, mortgage lenders, loan processors, title companies, real estate agents, data entry, typists, stock brokers, credit card customer service reps, etc...
But here's the problem. When the debt based monetary system expands beyond incomes... what happens to asset values? And if asset values collapse because of debt defaults, what happens to many of those jobs I listed above?
You're one of those pie-in-the-sky believers in the "new" economy aren't you? Open your eyes.... it's collapsing and now we're importing the poverty of India and China.
We have lost many of the "fluff" jobs created by the dotcom "new economy" and the jobs of the debt based asset value economy - the Finance Insurance Real Estate (FIRE) economy. NOW WE HAVE NEITHER THOSE JOBS OR THE OLD MANUFACTURING JOBS. WE PISSED IT ALL AWAY.
By sending those older manufacturing jobs abroad, we basically exported labor and imported poverty from India and China and Vietnam, etc...
How's that kool aid taste? Take another chug. Looks to me like you don't like to deal with reality.
Top post.
+1.
Of course they advocate it. There's nothing they can do to stop it. Once the internet came on-line the US's fate was sealed. Why would you pay HRB $200 to do your taxes when you can pay someone qualified in India 2 bucks?
Quote from mokwit:
I can't wait for the day when Economists and tenured professors who advocate things such as globalisation and low wages have their jobs offshored to economists in China who can talk just the same BS for $5/Day
I have to say one thing how many americans are in masters degrees in sciences in your colleges. Less then half, now. if your country really wants to succeed they have to want it. You keep blaming other people for your problems. You keep saying you want a better future. However you keep electing conservatives who dont belieave in science. Dont belieave in stem cell technologies, evolution, chemical sciences, physics, or even history. havent you learn from history, china was the most advanced country in the world and expanding their influence accross the world. People all over the world was coming to china. Till they got cocky, didnt belieave in science, thought they were advanced enought, and the enouchs *conservatives* of the time decided to ban all technological and exploration in their country. In china and india people want tobe doctors, engineers,and yes businessman. In the united states they want tobe actors and sports stars. If you guys want to succeed and dont want tobe another foot note in history like the roman empire, british empire, chinese empire of the past, belieave in science, and stop electing conservatives. It all went down hill when you guys got cocky.
Quote from Misthos:
Keep this in mind when thinking about globalization. It's not just about low skilled labor.
India and China combined have a popualtion of about 2.5 Billion people.
Let's take the top 10% of their populations and assume that this number represents the best and brightest.
That's 250 million people.
Our total population is 307 million people. Our top ten percent would be almost 31 million.
I'll admit, that there are many intelligent (top 10%ers) people in both India and China that will not be using their intellectual talents anytime soon - they may be living in a remote region, or belong to a lower caste, etc...
Nonetheless... there are a lot of them out there... and many of them would be happy working for 10 dollars a day.
This is a typical rant from a foreigner who loves to overgeneralize Americans as if we ALL vote for conservatives and "don't believe" in science. This line of thinking is no more ignorant than an American who believes all Indians reek of curry and Asians eat dogs.Quote from mahram:
I have to say one thing how many americans are in masters degrees in sciences in your colleges. Less then half, now. if your country really wants to succeed they have to want it. You keep blaming other people for your problems. You keep saying you want a better future. However you keep electing conservatives who dont belieave in science. Dont belieave in stem cell technologies, evolution, chemical sciences, physics, or even history. havent you learn from history, china was the most advanced country in the world and expanding their influence accross the world. People all over the world was coming to china. Till they got cocky, didnt belieave in science, thought they were advanced enought, and the enouchs *conservatives* of the time decided to ban all technological and exploration in their country. In china and india people want tobe doctors, engineers,and yes businessman. In the united states they want tobe actors and sports stars. If you guys want to succeed and dont want tobe another foot note in history like the roman empire, british empire, chinese empire of the past, belieave in science, and stop electing conservatives. It all went down hill when you guys got cocky.
Why doesn't America produce more engineers and scientists? Because American engineers and scientists have been severely underpaid and under-appreciated for decades. No corporation wants to pay a recent American engineering grad $40k/year when an H-1B will do the job for $20k. If H-1Bs would simply start demanding real salaries, it may alleviate the problem. Instead, they gladly bend over and grab their ankles as American corporations continue to rape them.
Check the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, which is notorious for fudging the numbers, and you'd find that there is little projected growth in most engineering fields.
hmmm did I overgeneralize. Did I miss 8 years of bush, and more then a decade of republican congressional rule. It only took the worst economic turmoil in 100 years to change that. Come on you have to admit americans are becoming more backwards towards science as the years progress. More americans belieave in magical creation, then evolution. americans are more then a decade behind in stemcell technology. No its because h1b engineers are smarter and more hard worker then the average american engineer. The ones that come over with the h1bs are some of the best of the best. Go to any american college and look at their masters programs, and look at how many are foreigners and how many americans. You dont hear many american accents these days. dont blame us, blame it on you. Next time go to a typical american school, ask them how many wants tobe scientists, then ask them how many wants tobe sports players or celebreties.
Quote from aegis:
This is a typical rant from a foreigner who loves to overgeneralize Americans as if we ALL vote for conservatives and "don't believe" in science. This line of thinking is no more ignorant than an American who believes all Indians reek of curry and Asians eat dogs.
Why doesn't America produce more engineers and scientists? Because American engineers and scientists have been severely underpaid and under-appreciated for decades. No corporation wants to pay a recent American engineering grad $40k/year when an H-1B will do the job for $20k. If H-1Bs would simply start demanding real salaries, it may alleviate the problem. Instead, they gladly bend over and grab their ankles as American corporations continue to rape them.
Check the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, which is notorious for fudging the numbers, and you'd find that there is little projected growth in most engineering fields.
Quote from aegis:
I don't see anything in Misthos' post that appears fallacious. He's spot on.
Things were quite different one-hundred years ago as there was far less competition. Today, a baby born in America is going to have a rough time earning a livable wage unless he/she plans on becoming a doctor.
And yet a baby born today in the US can plan on living to be 100. Oh we have it so rough.....
As to the original point, you have people with degrees making $10/hr and you have people w/o high school diplomas making $$millions.
It's still out there in the US if you want to go get it. But, the days of getting a BA in history and making $$ just because you have a degree are gone.
Too many people with degrees and not enough people that want to work hard and smart, in this country.
Quote from aegis:
Why doesn't America produce more engineers and scientists? Because American engineers and scientists have been severely underpaid and under-appreciated for decades. No corporation wants to pay a recent American engineering grad $40k/year when an H-1B will do the job for $20k. If H-1Bs would simply start demanding real salaries, it may alleviate the problem. Instead, they gladly bend over and grab their ankles as American corporations continue to rape them.
An h1b worker costs more than a us worker: you have to pay the prevailing wage and comply with a bunch of requirements, pay legal fees and etc. The law makes it very difficult to hire a foreigner. They get hired not because they are cheap. Also, no one will hire an h1b worker for an entry level position. It's too expensive. If you want to know the true reason why there are not enough US born scientists/engineers just look at the math, physics and chemistry textbooks for high school and undegrad university courses. It's such a basic stuff that even those who take more than a required number of math/science classes in school are not prepared well enough to take real university level science classes. Also, the majority of university students can't decide what their major will be until their 3rd or 4th year in school. Until then they just take classes they like (the ones that are fun ). Then, when they eventually realize they've been goofing off for quite awhile and can't take anymore loans and it's time to graduate they take 5-6 classes and get a diploma. Consequently the majority is not sufficiently prepared for even an entry level job in their field. Becoming an engineer, biologist, chemist and etc. is not fun, it actually sucks. The youth likes to have fun.