Should state that I was never nor ever will be a prop trader, sounds like you are. This means I never scalped for pennies, thot a quarter was a scalp till I met prop guys. Seems like the "game " is definitely sucking you up. I seriously doubt you're a moron, just making some moron moves. Step back for a moment, maybe force yourself not to trade for week, at the rate you're going it'll save you money. Decide how you want to play the game, style, time frames, etc and write it down. People have to do this in all business', it's a normal part of business. If you can't stay away for a week maybe it's not just a biz. to you but something else. I don't know, only you do but you do have to gain control by applying some methodology and recogniszing wether you can adhere to it or not. You can't be succsessful in this biz without discipline and you know that. In the end there are only three choices. Win the game with discipline, cause that's all the game really is, or lose the game and probably a whole lot else. The third choice is when one recognizes early on that one can't control it and walks away. Best of luck to you.
Overtrading
- Thread starter SwiftTrader
- Start date
Think about expanding your time frame and ratcheting up your selectivity, .03-.05 on the Q's is barely worth flipping direction for IMO, the commissions just eat you alive.
It's also extremely difficult to do post-trade analysis on targets that small; the smaller the movement the bigger a factor luck becomes, and hence it becomes hard to identify the problem. Instead, try to take trades where your stops and targets fall outside the realm of pure noise -- then the trading becomes more about personal discipline rather than managing chance. Once you're more able to identify your weak/strong points, it then boils down to working on minimizing/maximizing those points.
It's also extremely difficult to do post-trade analysis on targets that small; the smaller the movement the bigger a factor luck becomes, and hence it becomes hard to identify the problem. Instead, try to take trades where your stops and targets fall outside the realm of pure noise -- then the trading becomes more about personal discipline rather than managing chance. Once you're more able to identify your weak/strong points, it then boils down to working on minimizing/maximizing those points.
It sounds like you might be trading at an office with other guys trading Nasdaq stocks, mostly scalping with tired old methods. I have a lot of friends that are trading at some of those places, and they are turning into tired old traders. I dont know many of them who are doing well, but most are too afraid to try something new. You might do best to get out of the office and make a go of it from home.
Brandon
Really good thread going here. a lot of really good observations and sharing of experiences. serious contributions (in place of the usual over sprinkling of idiocy).
unfortunately over- trading is at one point for virtually all of us an unpleasant time that we have to endure. it's the pain of the experience that teaches us. hopefully it is a short and relatively inexpensive lesson. it cannot be a long and inexpensive lesson.
RS7
unfortunately over- trading is at one point for virtually all of us an unpleasant time that we have to endure. it's the pain of the experience that teaches us. hopefully it is a short and relatively inexpensive lesson. it cannot be a long and inexpensive lesson.
RS7
can be an addiction. Not just "like" an addiction, but truly an addiction in the sense of being based on actual biochemical responses to the "excitement" (or excitation) that comes from being in a trade, winning or losing, and that's easily produced by clicking a mouse or hitting a button. Daytraders are particularly vulnerable, for obvious reasons. Thinking that an experienced trader should be less affected by the thrill is like presuming that someone who's been smoking for twenty years should find quitting easier than a teenager who's just started should.
Regardless of the precise extent to which your overtrading is or has become a true physiological addiction, if you find that the behavior has become compulsive, and you consider complete wreckage of one or more trading accounts to be too bluntly aversive a program of behavior modification, then it's probably worth examining and pursuing multiple methods - including, for example, visualization, substitution, simple positive reinforcement, psychological analysis, environmental manipulation, and so-called neuro-linguistic programming.
Whether you go to a therapist, pop psychology texts, veteran traders, or books like Douglas' TRADING IN THE ZONE or Ruth Barrons Roosevelt's EXCEPTIONAL TRADING: THE MIND GAME, you may not be able to solve the problem until you've considered just how serious it may be, and how deeply rooted or ingrained.
Regardless of the precise extent to which your overtrading is or has become a true physiological addiction, if you find that the behavior has become compulsive, and you consider complete wreckage of one or more trading accounts to be too bluntly aversive a program of behavior modification, then it's probably worth examining and pursuing multiple methods - including, for example, visualization, substitution, simple positive reinforcement, psychological analysis, environmental manipulation, and so-called neuro-linguistic programming.
Whether you go to a therapist, pop psychology texts, veteran traders, or books like Douglas' TRADING IN THE ZONE or Ruth Barrons Roosevelt's EXCEPTIONAL TRADING: THE MIND GAME, you may not be able to solve the problem until you've considered just how serious it may be, and how deeply rooted or ingrained.
great post man- how are those books you mentioned?- are they worthy of the time it takes to read them (i've read too many trading books of garbage but am always looking for something to actually expand my knowledge) did they help you in your trading? thanks and best of luck to ya..
Electronic trading is like candy or even worse crack cocaine. I wish I could get the rates I had when I was down on the floor. Eurex knows it and the Merc and the Board are slowly coming to realize it. I was always taught that a scratch is a winner - guess what, in the electronic environment it's not. A scratch is a mini-loser. I have been desperately trying to slow myself down as of late. The only thing that seems to work is if I wait for a certain price level before I initiate a trade.
Just read this, it is an awesome book with the only requirement to "getting it" being the ability to be honest with yourself...
Has helped my trading immensely by helping me to be more mechanical and less emotionally attached to any trade, winner or loser.
Just my .02
Good Fortune Tommorrow!
Paul
Has helped my trading immensely by helping me to be more mechanical and less emotionally attached to any trade, winner or loser.
Just my .02
Good Fortune Tommorrow!
Paul
June was my first losing month this year, but I should have seen it coming. As this year has progressed I've experimented with ever decreasing time intervals and ever increasing trade size. This has been spurred on by the consistency of my winnings, leading me to believe that I could continue to produce such gains by trading in a more rapid fire manner. Boy was I wrong.
Although still gross positive in June the commish slaughtered my bottom line. Additionally my stress level skyrocketed, as I tried to catch small moves with size (avg. 7500 shares). I suppose I was aware of the riskiness of this kind of scalping, hence the stress, but I had never tried trading like this before and thought I could pull it off. Overall the month was bad for my psyche and for my bank account.
Therapy for me has been to back way off. I basically took all of July off, and will resume trading soon with my old position sizing and time frames. I definitely felt like a "player" while scalping with size, but i'd rather just be profitable, and its clear that the thrill of trading can really suck people in yet this is destined to be counterproductive for most of the people who do it.
Although still gross positive in June the commish slaughtered my bottom line. Additionally my stress level skyrocketed, as I tried to catch small moves with size (avg. 7500 shares). I suppose I was aware of the riskiness of this kind of scalping, hence the stress, but I had never tried trading like this before and thought I could pull it off. Overall the month was bad for my psyche and for my bank account.
Therapy for me has been to back way off. I basically took all of July off, and will resume trading soon with my old position sizing and time frames. I definitely felt like a "player" while scalping with size, but i'd rather just be profitable, and its clear that the thrill of trading can really suck people in yet this is destined to be counterproductive for most of the people who do it.