Outsourcing & Jobs Report

I see and understand ur points and yes the average joe is FUBARED in the near future....however, unless the market comes to a grinding halt, It does not effect me much.

As a trader who trades for a living, hopefully the misinformation, the hope and the reality will cause some good possiblities for trading.

I do believe that the markets will come to a grinding sideways range in the near future as most american's begin to see that they are broke and cant handel the debt load per household.

However, this will force me to trade other markets unless the whole world comes to a grinding halt.

So, i dont give a rats arse about JOE PUBLIC...if i did i would be a social worker and not trading for a living.
 
Quote from dougcs:



As far as h1b's go, you may have missed the fact that Congress sharply cut the number allowed, maybe to the point where the domestic supply of talent will not be able to keep up with the rising demand forecast over the next decade.
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I can take a walk through this (very hi tech) place I work in and go quite a ways without seeing a caucasion sometimes. All H1b's, all working cheap I suppose, why else hire them? Maybe you hire them on the cheap and then there is some rule that they can't move on to a better job??

Max
 
What I want to know is how in the world can this population go on and these companies keep on earning when the cheap money window closes.

As global as US companies pretend to be, let's be honest. US population is the consumer nation that sucks up most of the consumer goods in the world. Where are these revenues coming from? Not from wages.

Look it's simple. Eventually the cards will be maxed out, house payments will be nearly unbearable to make and the consumerism that US is so used to will have to stop. Then the corporate earnings will plummet. And then what? Can't use foodstamps to buy electronics.

BTW, let's get the facts straight. Outsourcing IS NOT cheaper, not exactly. Anything above simple menial tasks, has a quality of product/service compromise. The quality IS NOT the same. The education, experience of these Indian professionals is not even close. It is after all, a third world country. That's why so many of them have been coming here for decades and starting from scratch.
Also, our work is affected by our beliefs, culture & upbringing. And then there is that whole thing with human interaction, you know, the reason offices were built in the first place.
All these 50k a year in US vs 10k a year in India have many many many hidden costs. Do the research and you will find out. It's all bullshit. You think call centers just pop up out of nowhere ready to employ Indians? Networks, office buildings, computers and monitors fall from heaven ready to welcome American outsourcing? Anyone here even remotely familiar with the electricity situation in India? Those back up generators, not cheap.
Yeah it makes so much sense to build a whole new infrastructure in a new country and then have it show all these great cost savings since labor is so cheap. Oh yeah and let's show it over 20-100 years so that the investment costs become insignificant and assume no rising wage costs. What a smart CEO, let's throw him an extra 3 mil at the end of the year for such great work. BTW, as we keep reinvesting some of our profits to India, let's keep on pushing products to the unemployed Americans.

Half of these outsourced jobs could have easily been fixed in the US. Adjust the salaries, cut the costs, raise efficiency and there would have been no need to have this mass exodus.
Why is it that it is mainly USA companies that are the ones causing this boom in India? How come European conglomerates are not doing the same mass exodus? Europe is not cheap labor at all.

Such pure bullshit of manipulated numbers, corrupt corporate governance and the spoiling of the average American Joe Shmoe. I can't believe neither of you can realize the basics behind this problem. There is no inflow of capital into this country, just an outflow. Whatever foreign capital going into this country is very strongly offset by USA's own companies investing outside of US. Oh yeah, then there is the trade deficit.
 
MaxPi,

I used to hire H1-B's in my previous high-tech corporate life. For us the pay was identical. We hired the best person for the job and I'm sorry to say it was often a foreign born grad. They were more enthusiastic about working for us and it was clear in the technical part of the interview process that they had been more enthusiastic about their learning in college as well. Consider that most of them were at a disadvantage communications-wise because English was usually their second language, the hassle of sponsoring them for their H1-B and they still got hired! Pretty disheartening indictment about the motivation of your typical US-born graduate. We definitely weren't hiring foreign born grads on the cheap.

You can complain about our education system, but these H1-B's were all graduates of US colleges. I put the blame on the individual who went through college and didn't measure up technically. Party all you want kids, but if you don' t know your stuff, you're gonna be flipping burgers.
 
Quote from le140:

"If you believe that IBM laid off 5K IT employees (college-educated with years of experience) and hired 15K people in India because Indians were better educated, I'd like to know what you're smoking. And IBM is just one example of what's happening all over the country."

Would these IT emplyees take $3/ hr working in the US ? That's my point of supply and demand.
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I did not argue with your point on supply and demand, of course all prices are based on supply and demand.

I disagreed with your point on higher education and spoiled kids not willing to go to college. Do you really think that college-educated US employees should work for $3hr? Cause their equally educated Indian counterparts will and gladly so.
 
Quote from Shreddog:

MaxPi,

I used to hire H1-B's in my previous high-tech corporate life. For us the pay was identical. We hired the best person for the job and I'm sorry to say it was often a foreign born grad. They were more enthusiastic about working for us and it was clear in the technical part of the interview process that they had been more enthusiastic about their learning in college as well. Consider that most of them were at a disadvantage communications-wise because English was usually their second language, the hassle of sponsoring them for their H1-B and they still got hired! Pretty disheartening indictment about the motivation of your typical US-born graduate. We definitely weren't hiring foreign born grads on the cheap.

You can complain about our education system, but these H1-B's were all graduates of US colleges. I put the blame on the individual who went through college and didn't measure up technically. Party all you want kids, but if you don' t know your stuff, you're gonna be flipping burgers.
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doesnt change that there are US citizens qualified for the job. theres a difference between qualified, more qualified and not qualified.
 
Quote from le140:



Wake up people. It's all about jobs supply and demand, we are not qualify to do the jobs ....
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Hell no, like I said in my other post, I can walk a long way in this place I work in without seeing a caucasian, and most of these people are doing work that lots of out of work, native born Americans could be doing, myself included, but they have a degree and I do not. When I started out you could work up to a certain level without the degree, in the recent years I have been elbowed lower and lower in the organization while these guys and gals on visas are taking the good jobs. I don't resent them at all, I like most people, but I am certainly glad I can develope the trading career while I am getting kicked off the job ladder.

Max
 
Common misunderstanding on jobs growth .. why isn't it faster?
Shouldn't be in early recovery/new boom when management still deeply in love with keeping costs cut to the bone .. good for corporate profits though.

Later in the boom cycle, when employment has been rising strongly management gets badly relaxed, starts really losing focus on holding down costs, more and more money slops around in every direction and loose ideas start abounding everywhere.
Nice times of course.
 
Random ideas inarticulated.

White collar job bleeding for years to come will:

create more stock traders as stock trading is a readily available
occupation.

create more stock traders because if the US sees wages decreases then investing will become more necessary for everybody.

create more elistism in stock trading, as the classes separate due to lower wages and the fewer available white collar jobs.

force more grad students to work in the EU and developing countries. (which may mean more international competition less US dominance in the long run)


Also because of job losses,

the bull market has more possibilty to last longer

interest rates rise more slowly

markets rise more slowly

more money to be made.

less buying of $50- $5,000 luxury items such as computers.


Without the job losses the current bull market would last 3/4 as long as with jobloss?

 
doesnt change that there are US citizens qualified for the job. theres a difference between qualified, more qualified and not qualified.

Just because you are qualified doesn't mean you get the job. "Qualified" is a pretty vague term. Are you trying to tell me that as a hiring manager you wouldn't hire the best possible candidate? I'm not talking about sending work offshore, just hiring the best person for the job here in the US.
 
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