Does anyone have any recommendations on any good options trader tax accountants? Im wondering if I should declare myself a professional trader, or set up an entity and trade through that. All of which is foreign language to me. Does anyone have any experience trading with professional trader status or through an entity? And if so, which route do you recommend I look into.
Option trader tax status
- Thread starter iTradeOptions
- Start date
Where are you based?
Here in the United States. Iowa to be exact
Check out this website: https://greentradertax.com/
Start by going to the IRS website and reading about securities trading. Specifically;
Topic 429 - Traders in Securities (Information for Form 1040 Filers)
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc429.html
Publication 550 (2015), Investment Income and Expenses
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p550/index.html
What the IRS says in Topic 490 is, in part;
Traders
Special rules apply if you are a trader in securities, in the business of buying and selling securities for your own account. The law considers this to be a business, even though a trader does not maintain an inventory and does not have customers. To be engaged in business as a trader in securities, you must meet all of the following conditions:
You must seek to profit from daily market movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends, interest, or capital appreciation;
Your activity must be substantial; and
You must carry on the activity with continuity and regularity.
The following facts and circumstances should be considered in determining if your activity is a securities trading business:
Typical holding periods for securities bought and sold;
The frequency and dollar amount of your trades during the year;
The extent to which you pursue the activity to produce income for a livelihood; and
The amount of time you devote to the activity.
-- Then try the Green Trader website.
green trader - Trader Tax Status
https://greentradertax.com/trader-tax-center/trader-tax-status/
Green’s Golden Rules For Qualification For Trader Tax Status
1. Taxpayers’ trading activity must be substantial, regular, frequent and continuous.
2. The taxpayer must seek to catch the swings in the daily market movements and profit from these short-term changes rather than profiting from long-term holding of investments.
The trader must have (according to Green);
Substantial volume
Substantial proceeds
Regular
Frequent
Continuous
Time
Daily market movements
Intention
Business setup
Materiality
Purchase Green’s 2016 Trader Tax Guide
https://greentradertax.com/shop-guides/greens-trader-tax-guide/
Hope this helps.
Again, I highly suggest that you visit, as others have recommended, the IRS and Green Trader Tax websites.
"IRS" business trader, is interesting only if at least one situation apply to you:
- You want to trade in an entity for short term, and keep long term investment in your family name
- You know (!) you will or at least have a great chance to lose a lot (gambler?) and want to be able to deduct your losses.
- You can deduct home office, hardware, education, etc...
- You want to avoid wash sales, and want to use the MTM rules (really important for day and short term traders)
- You know you will make money, and want to deduct 401K or similar
- You are making money and need a W2 (SS contribution, mortgage application, etc...)
- You want to hire, people, family, in "a sound and legitimate business"
And, you are trading very short term, a lot of trades, and a lot of trade transactions in dollars terms. The last part is specifically complicated for option traders, obviously.
If all of that is foreign language for you, I think you should focus on trading only and use professional help regarding of your situation.
In my opinion trade a lot and lose a lot is out of question. So, as soon as you really treat your trading as a business and make consistently money month after month, you should learn as much as you can for the "business part" of your trading activities, including taxes, accounting, documentation of your business, etc...
Good trades!
- You want to trade in an entity for short term, and keep long term investment in your family name
- You know (!) you will or at least have a great chance to lose a lot (gambler?) and want to be able to deduct your losses.
- You can deduct home office, hardware, education, etc...
- You want to avoid wash sales, and want to use the MTM rules (really important for day and short term traders)
- You know you will make money, and want to deduct 401K or similar
- You are making money and need a W2 (SS contribution, mortgage application, etc...)
- You want to hire, people, family, in "a sound and legitimate business"
And, you are trading very short term, a lot of trades, and a lot of trade transactions in dollars terms. The last part is specifically complicated for option traders, obviously.
If all of that is foreign language for you, I think you should focus on trading only and use professional help regarding of your situation.
In my opinion trade a lot and lose a lot is out of question. So, as soon as you really treat your trading as a business and make consistently money month after month, you should learn as much as you can for the "business part" of your trading activities, including taxes, accounting, documentation of your business, etc...
Good trades!
Exactly, Fonz. For a trader like myself who trades mostly options all day, every day, that last part complicates matters for me in what otherwise would be a clear-cut TTS for me. The dollar amount isn't there per transaction. So while I definitely consider what I do to be a business, that is where I say that I'm not a super-clear candidate, and I should avoid any attempt to go TTS. Thanks for pointing that out.
From:
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc429.html
It is not really clear, based on this text alone, how much money you need to be trading per year to qualify. I would also argue that a trader who uses a low average dollar amount per trade but trades very frequently is just as much of a trader (if not more so) as one who trades less frequently but uses a high average dollar amount per trade.
So true. In my case, the vast majority of my trading is writing options. In viewing both checklists below...
Green's checklist:
Substantial volume
Substantial proceeds
Regular
Frequent
Continuous
Time
Daily market movements
Intention
Business setup
Materiality
On Green's checklist, I cannot say that daily market movements are crucial to my business, and the proceeds are not substantial "per transaction"...only on the whole sum. So there is my gray area. So although I can check "yes" to the rest, I can probably be deemed more of an investor in the IRS view.
IRS checklist:
- Typical holding periods for securities bought and sold;
- The frequency and dollar amount of your trades during the year;
- The extent to which you pursue the activity to produce income for a livelihood; and
- The amount of time you devote to the activity.
I may have too much gray area. I'm not a day trader, and I'm not in and out of the market daily. I'm not swing trading, either. Basically, while taking on many options positions daily and unloading them weekly/monthly is the vast majority of my trading business and how I obtain my income, it's not a slam dunk that TTS is approved for me. I don't know that the odds are in my favor to give it a shot, although I was intrigued, and I'm so close to meeting the assumed criteria.
If there is a large dollar amount involved (in terms of being able to write off business expenses), you should definitely do a consultation with Green Trader Tax (or similar organization) and see what they think about your situation and whether you qualify for TTS. If it isn't that much of a win for you, then maybe it isn't worth the time and effort.