One giant mortgage crisis wasn't enough

[LEAPup]

Quote from Lucrum:

It's happy hour big guy, have a beer. I was, I thought, obviously being facetious.

I'm a recovering alcoholic. Oh yes, I've slipped a few times over the past few years... It's days like today that I'd LOVE to have about 12 beers sitting on the beach surf fishing.

After Odumba pulled his little "we may not be able to send out August social security checks" crap, I have had TONS of phone calls from retiree Clients who are receiving a monthly income from their investments with me + their pensions (if they have pensions), and their social security.

Odamnit scared them so bad that in the past two days that many are needing to have me ach $$$ that's in the cash portion of their portfolio's so they don't have to have any disruptions in their monthly income/lifestyle due to a 'possible' problem with social security. So far, I've had $$$$ ACH'd into the accounts of 68 Clients the last two days, and counting...

This is part of my job, and I enjoy helping Clients. I DO NOT enjoy what Odamnit has pulled by scaring these poor folks to death! Can I get permission to have a beer or twelve?

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Trader666:
Nonsense. The "banksters" have been demonized far more than the other bad actors because they're the easy political target. In comparison everyone else has been given a pass. Such as the countless greedy, irresponsible sheeple who bought more house than they could afford and who took $2.3 trillion in equity from their homes from 2003 to 2007 and are now squatters but also "victims" and "heroes." Pandering politicians who are trying to keep them there without paying are "compassionate." Where's all the outrage over that or those responsible for Gramm-Leach-Bliley or relaxing the net capital rule or the other boneheaded government moves?

Of course TBTF is even more of an issue now that it was. But hardly anyone has been held responsible when IMO EVERYONE who contributed should be, and pretty much only the "banksters" have been demonized.

Demonized? Bankers? You must be kidding, right? Have you actually followed the various mtge foreclosure dramas recently? Have you heard about the derailing of all attempts to increase capital buffers and make the industry more robust?

It's good to know who the real banker apologists are on ET.

 

[Trader666]

What part of the article in the OP didn't you understand? That kind of nonsensical horseshit couldn't exist without demonizing "banksters" while ignoring the roles of government and the sheeple in the last bubble. Speaking of which, do you also not understand that the bubble couldn't have happened without the full participation of government and the sheeple? And that businesses SHOULD act in what they think is their own best self-interests in a capitalist system? It's also disingenuous to call me a "real banker apologist" in reply to a post in which I said "EVERYONE who contributed" should be held responsible. But don't let reality get in the way of your beliefs.

Quote from Martinghoul:

Demonized? Bankers? You must be kidding, right? Have you actually followed the various mtge foreclosure dramas recently? Have you heard about the derailing of all attempts to increase capital buffers and make the industry more robust?

It's good to know who the real banker apologists are on ET.

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Trader666:
What part of the article in the OP didn't you understand? That kind of nonsensical horseshit couldn't exist without demonizing "banksters" while ignoring the roles of government and the sheeple in the last bubble. Speaking of which, do you also not understand that the bubble couldn't have happened without the full participation of government and the sheeple? And that businesses SHOULD act in what they think is their own best self-interests in a capitalist system? It's also disingenuous to call me a "real banker apologist" in reply to a post in which I said "EVERYONE who contributed" should be held responsible. But don't let reality get in the way of your beliefs.

What part of my point did you not get? Did I not repeatedly state that I was not responding to the original article, but rather to the follow-up assertion?

As to who is guilty and to what extent, I never suggested that the govt and the "sheeple" are blameless. However, do you not get the simple fact that the government and the "sheeple", regardless of how much responsibility they bear, are paying for the bubble and will likely pay for generations to come? Have the banksters paid? Has the industry changed for the better? Those are rhetorical questions, by the way. Let me reiterate: it's abundantly clear that the banking industry is engaging in a conscious effort to shift the blame away from itself. There is nothing counter-intuitive about it, as it's a simple matter of self-preservation and self-interest.

Speaking of self-interest, two points. Firstly, if businesses are supposed to act in their own self-interest in a capitalist system, aren't individuals? Secondly, there is a concept of "externality" in economics, which is central to the issue at hand. Read stuff that's been written by Simon Johnson, Anat Admati, Andy Haldane etc on the subject.

Finally, it's not disingenous to call you a "banker apologist". I suggest that a lion's share of the blame rests with the banksters. You want to dilute this. Hence, you're a banker apologist.

 

[Ricter]

People at all levels gambled, it's true. (That so many feel they need to gamble to secure some kind of comfortable future, well, that's a topic for its own thread.) But of all the folks who gambled and lost badly, I think it's mainly the bankers who have not only recovered, their profits are better than ever. The working man, he's still paying, and it looks like his kids are going to be paying, too. Very Dickensian if you ask me.

 

[Trader666]

You're responding more to the demons in your head than anything else. The government hasn't paid for anything and never will (except maybe in terms of loss of credibility) because it only has what it confiscates from taxpayers. Those affected by the aftershocks of this mess who had nothing to do with it are the real victims. And stating "EVERYONE who contributed" should be held responsible is not diluting anyone's blame. Get real.

Quote from Martinghoul:

What part of my point did you not get? Did I not repeatedly state that I was not responding to the original article, but rather to the follow-up assertion?

As to who is guilty and to what extent, I never suggested that the govt and the "sheeple" are blameless. However, do you not get the simple fact that the government and the "sheeple", regardless of how much responsibility they bear, are paying for the bubble and will likely pay for generations to come? Have the banksters paid? Has the industry changed for the better? Those are rhetorical questions, by the way. Let me reiterate: it's abundantly clear that the banking industry is engaging in a conscious effort to shift the blame away from itself. There is nothing counter-intuitive about it, as it's a simple matter of self-preservation and self-interest.

Speaking of self-interest, two points. Firstly, if businesses are supposed to act in their own self-interest in a capitalist system, aren't individuals? Secondly, there is a concept of "externality" in economics, which is central to the issue at hand. Read stuff that's been written by Simon Johnson, Anat Admati, Andy Haldane etc on the subject.

Finally, it's not disingenous to call you a "banker apologist". I suggest that a lion's share of the blame rests with the banksters. You want to dilute this. Hence, you're a banker apologist.

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Trader666:
You're responding more to the demons in your head than anything else. The government hasn't paid for anything and never will (except maybe with further loss of credibility) because it only has what it confiscates from taxpayers. Those affected by the aftershocks of this mess who had nothing to do with it are the real victims here. And stating "EVERYONE who contributed" should be held responsible is not diluting anyone's responsibility. Get real.

I am real and you should stop imagining demons in my head... I don't have any ideological political bullsh1t getting in the way of my thinking. You, on the other hand, are so blinkered by ideology that you don't see what is nearly obvious.

As to the government not paying, last time I checked that's up to the people. If your government is organized so poorly that you can't hold them responsible for anything, whose problem is that? So, no matter how you slice it, the people ultimately foot the bill, while the banksters get away scot-free. Not only that, but they get to organize a repeat performance, 'cause it's back to business as usual. Thanks mostly to people like yourself.

Finally, accusing "everyone who contributed" is just not good enough. However, suit yourself, we don't really have to argue about this any more.

 

[Trader666]

You absolutely have demons in your head, in the form of the very ideological bullshit you claim to be free of. There will be no repeat performance unless some pandering politicians have their way and it's certainly not business as usual. And don't co-opt my point about taxpayers and pretend it's yours after you put your foot in your mouth about government paying. Or keep misrepresenting what I said about who should be held responsible.

Quote from Martinghoul:

I am real and you should stop imagining demons in my head... I don't have any ideological political bullsh1t getting in the way of my thinking. You, on the other hand, are so blinkered by ideology that you don't see what is nearly obvious.

As to the government not paying, last time I checked that's up to the people. If your government is organized so poorly that you can't hold them responsible for anything, whose problem is that? So, no matter how you slice it, the people ultimately foot the bill, while the banksters get away scot-free. Not only that, but they get to organize a repeat performance, 'cause it's back to business as usual. Thanks mostly to people like yourself.

Finally, accusing "everyone who contributed" is just not good enough. However, suit yourself, we don't really have to argue about this any more.

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Trader666:
You absolutely have demons in your head, in the form of the very ideological bullshit you claim to be free of. There will be no repeat performance unless some pandering politicians have their way and it's certainly not business as usual. And don't co-opt my point about taxpayers and pretend it's yours after you put your foot in your mouth about government paying. Or keep misrepresenting what I said about who should be held responsible.

Say what? What ideological bullsh1t? What did I co-opt? Where did you get the "foot in mouth" thing?

At any rate, this is getting tedious and uninteresting. I fear we're never gonna agree, so let's just leave it.

 

[Artful D0dger]

The bottom line is that when you mandate that mortgages be given out based on race rather than ability to pay the mortgage, then it creates problems. Racial discrimination against white people had much to do with the crisis, and it looks as though it will continue.