On Don Bright & his trading methods

Quote from Lucias:

Don thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions. I will keep your firm in mind as a consideration when/if I get to that level.
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I'm considering his Firm too. I'm Series 7, and 66 Registered Investment Advisor, and the ONLY reason I keep my Series 7 is the possibility of working for Don's Firm, or one very similar which I've not seen many of.

The prop shops that hire new college grad (kids), pay them a salary, have their colthes laundered, and bring in lunch do that for a reason. You're chained to the desk. Plus, 8/10 get canned in the first year. Not a firm I'd want to work for.
 
Quote from emg:

More than 90% of small traders lose. They just lose!
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Just like 90% of small businesses fail. They just fail.

You are small, you work against the odds.
 
Quote from hippie:

Just like 90% of small businesses fail. They just fail.

You are small, you work against the odds.
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Working against the odds is the American way. Well, it used to be...
 
Quote from Don Bright:

After quickly replying to the last few posts, I thought I would simply say that we are proud of our Firm and what we have done in offering an alternative to those who wish to take trading past the retail level. No "matching of trades" no "wash sale rules" to deal with, some simply steps to join in the ranks of other professionals.

However, serious trading, trading for a living (as I've said many times) is just not for everyone. It is not for the person with a few grand going in and out of a trade between his or her work cycle...- our group comes from various trading floors, and from the group that is limited by PDT etc.

I don't feel I have anything to defend here...we, along with 3 or 4 other firms these days, are still offering this alternative....but, "not for everyone." Most of you know who you are, and call me every day... let me know if I can explain anything further.

I do my best to explain everything I can here on ET, doing my best to help as many as I can.

Don
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Don's a man with integrity, an asset to ET, and offers a good opportunity to enter the biz without the issues that come with unscrupulous firms. Glad you're back communicating on the board.
 
Quote from Samsara:

Don's a man with integrity, an asset to ET, and offers a good opportunity to enter the biz without the issues that come with unscrupulous firms. Glad you're back communicating on the board.
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Thanks....your note came at a good time....

Don :)
 
Way too much ass kissing on this thread. If this doesn't change stat, Mav might have to come out swinging again. Just a friendly warning...:)
 
Quote from LEAPup:
... I don't understand why Don gets jabbed at so much while other prop firms are a joke, but go un-announced...
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There is a difference jabbing at Don and jabbing at BrightTrading... My criticism is mostly of Don Bright and less of BrightTrading...

Once you are in BrightTrading... Once you are past the initial UNNECESSARY WORTHLESS 3 day and boot camp training... its up to you to do well or poorly depending on your trading skills - ... but the initial costs of the UNNECESSARY WORTHLESS training were ridiculous... considering their lack of value and substance in them...

and if you search on ET you will find others who have been thru the Bright Training and have posted the same thing on ET and then some ...

The 3 day session and Boot Camp focus Mainly on 3 Strategies...

Opening Orders
Pair Trading
Market On Close...

Opening Orders...
has been a losing game for many Bright traders for the last two or more years (and i still talk to some at Bright)... One formerly successful trader there does enough spreadsheet work and back-testing work on Opening Orders to sink an aircraft carrier and he can't make it at Opening Orders anymore... so best of luck to the newbie who is taught this in the 3 day session and in the Boot Camp... worthless...

Pair Trading...
Anything you need to know about pair trading you can get reading the Art of the Arb manual 10 times over what you get in the 3 day session or boot camp at Bright... and its a LOT cheaper...

Market On Close...
Doesn't work anymore and its a feast now for the floor traders on the NYSE to eat the Prop traders accounts for lunch...

The rest of the 3 day camp and Boot Camp minor strategies are equally worthless... you can get it out of a book much better...

To make a long story short... DO NOT TAKE THE 3 DAY CLASS OR THE BOOT CAMP CLASS if its now only truly recommended instead of required as it was in the past...

On my mother's grave my relative who went thru this at Bright will quote Don Bright as saying to him when he asked if he could skip the training or if it is required of newbies to Bright... He was flatly told by Don Bright that "If He Had Made over $250,000 last year in his trading he could skip the training"... otherwise not...

Skip the initial training and FIND a BrightTrader who can show in his Goldman Sachs account that he is MAKING MONEY consistently and pay him for training... then you have a chance...

but the initial training costs are just a great way for BrightTrading, especially Don Bright, to make an extra $150,000 or more each year... by stripping newbies of hard earned cash and giving them nothing in return... nothing... and this is from direct experience from a relative of mine who went thru this at Bright...

and don't forget you have to stay in the Vegas during this time paying for an unnecessary Hotel, Food, Transportation and it adds up to a lot of unnecessary money out of the pocket of the new trader at Bright...

Bright could easily train new traders at home through WebEx or other browser software... but they do not do this the easy... you have to go to Vegas... garbage... Bright could not get the Vig they get if they did the web method of training that everyone else does... They prefer extracting, like a Surgeon, new money each quarter as they do from new traders offering worthless training materials...
 
I have been critical of this training as well in the past. I think Don might have inadvertently started the whole pay for training trend we have seen the last 5 years in the prop world. Other firms saw how lucrative it was and joined in. Thanks Don!

But seriously, back in the day when I started at Worldco (May of 2000) they had a great way of doing this. Sit a trader next to a veteran and let him learn the ropes. The veteran trader did get a vig for doing this but it only added up to real money if the trader ended up doing size, which meant he needed to be successful on some level. Worldco never charged for training. I made it no secret that my mentor there was Adam Wasserman, who was one of the best tape readers in NY. I learned far more for free in his group then any 3 day bootcamp could ever teach me. Furthermore, every Wednesday after the close, one of our 7 figure earners would get up and talk to the group for about an hour answering questions about how he became a successful trader. No charge for that either. It was very educational as we got a chance to see different styles and different methods.

Worldco's model worked brilliantly but to be fair, they got to execute that model in a fantastic market environment. I've debated with Don for hours over pairtrading and it's effectiveness. I've made my opinions on the matter very clear to him, both in person and on ET. I agree with many of the critics on here that I just don't understand the logic behind trading stat correlation against Citadel and Goldman and who have 1 million times more capital, better execution, order flow info and trade at cost. I truly believe that if traders do not have a definable edge, they need to be in the pure risk space. That space is devoid of Citadel and Goldman and the like and is full of newbies and rank amateurs. That is where the money is, not in stat correlation. But that is just my opinion.
 
I'll throw my 2 cents in.....

Like Maverick, I don't subscribe to the whole charging a training fee thing. Back in 1992 when I started, it was unheard of to charge new guys a fee to learn. The bigger/real firms did their due diligence in the interviews and only hired the people they thought were qualified. They then had the new guys learn from the top traders through short classes in the middle of the day, and sitting on trading desks just watching during the busy part of the day. The guys that did the training either got a small % of what the guys they trained did P/L wise...or got a small salary......and the firm made their money from the P/L cut....not any fees.

I think over the last 5-8 years trading has become MUCH more competitive and tougher. Guys who could hack it during the easy times (1995-2002), can't anymore. So it's much harder for prop firms to make money just by P/L. So now some of these firms are saying "screw the whole interview process and actually trying to weed out the bad candidates...let's just charge a fee to train ANYONE....throw a bunch of shit against the wall and see what sticks we have nothing to lose". Now....some of these firms will say "we have plenty at risk.....we are backing guys once they complete training". Well...newsflash.....once you complete the training you will basically have a P/L cutoff that's pretty close to whatever you paid for training. So it's bullshit that they say they are taking any kind of risk. That's the BIG difference between the successful prop firms and the ones who can't attract any talent...the successful ones understand risk and accept taking it. The ones who are afraid of it are a revolving door of guys who blowout their training fees and have ridiculously strict limits.

I think one of the biggest problems is that new people want some magic formula to the holy grail of endless trading profits. They think some firm has a class that will teach them the secret...and that they will become successful traders in 3-6 months. It takes YEARS to become a successful trader. Sure you can learn different strategies/methods......but the most important thing is discipline. It is miles ahead of any other part of the equation to becoming a good trader. And it takes time to learn how to be disciplined.

As far as Don Bright ? Never met the man. But I have been around long enough to know plenty of the "bad guys" and bullshit artists out there in the trading world. He ain't one them. The guy comes on here and offers valuable info...and is very polite and helpful. Is he trying to get some traders to his firm? Sure. But he tells it like it is.
 
Let me also add that traders need to be very careful what they wish for. Although I think the paid for training model is out of control, there is a place in the business for these low entry firms. The fact of the matter is 99% of the guys on ET could not get Goldman, Citadel or even a Transmarket Group to return a phone call much less get an interview. So the fact that there are firms out there that will open the door and let guys in with little to no experience is really the only shot a lot of guys on here have.

My criticism of Don, and I think it's a legit one, is the dogmatic devotion to pairtrading and that singular focus. This business is very tough and competitive and Don and his brother actually have the resources to venture into new waters like futures and options where 98% of the REAL prop firms trade, and yet they stay the course. I almost admire that devotion except that Don does come on here and sell it like an ice cream cone on a hot summer day.

But I agree, in a sea full of sharks, Don has kept his doors open long enough to be respected and should be. And I always welcome debate with him in person as well as on ET.
 
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