On 10-case geometry and beyond

[tiddlywinks]

Here is my attempt for ES yesterday. I did several more but they just feel too incomplete and I can probably do better. Any advice or critiques are welcome.

Also, I think I'm still missing the faster fractal but I just cannot make sense of the volume patterns there. It's like R2B2B2R2R2B2R2B2B2R2R or something like that. Level 3 also feels off like I need to redraw if EOD becomes FTT afterall.

I tried to treat laterals as one bar to help me get a better read. Not sure if I'm doing that right but it seems to make more sense.

Bars 0 to 6 I just didn't know what to do with. I guess they need to be continued from the day before? Bars 67 to 71 was kind of confusing too lol.

Still a long way to go.

Easy suggestion... do price pane annotations. Don't worry about gaussians for now. Once your price pane skills are built, the guassians will become much easier, PLUS you be able to "see" the PV relationship alot clearer.

btw... laterals. please review what they are, and how they end.

 

[NeedToLearn]

My understanding of laterals were when the second bar is an insider bar (pennants) and the following bar or bars move in opposite of FTP/FTB and failing to close outside the bar that was enclosed in. In order to end, a bar either clearly closes outside or if one peeps out closes back inside then the consecutive bar manages to close higher than the previous high. At least that's how I understood it.

 

[tiddlywinks]

My understanding of laterals were when the second bar is an insider bar (pennants) and the following bar or bars move in opposite of FTP/FTB and failing to close outside the bar that was enclosed in. In order to end, a bar either clearly closes outside or if one peeps out closes back inside then the consecutive bar manages to close higher than the previous high. At least that's how I understood it.

From Spyder...

All lateral formations develop out of a three bar Series. Bars Two and Three sit 'inside' Bar One where the Highs of Bars Two and Three sit no higher than the High of Bar One and the Lows fall no further than the Low of Bar One.

Also from Spyder...

The lateral formation continues until terminated with two closes outside the Lateral boundaries (created from the High / Low of Bar 1) - except where the 'two closes' form a 'flaw.' In such a case, we require a 'third' close outside the lateral boundary in order to have reached 'termination' of the previous lateral.


Everyone must learn to differentiate that which actually exists, from that which, they believe exists.



- Spydertrader

 

[Sprout]

Here is my attempt for ES yesterday. I did several more but they just feel too incomplete and I can probably do better. Any advice or critiques are welcome.

Also, I think I'm still missing the faster fractal but I just cannot make sense of the volume patterns there. It's like R2B2B2R2R2B2R2B2B2R2R or something like that. Level 3 also feels off like I need to redraw if EOD becomes FTT afterall.

I tried to treat laterals as one bar to help me get a better read. Not sure if I'm doing that right but it seems to make more sense.

Bars 0 to 6 I just didn't know what to do with. I guess they need to be continued from the day before? Bars 67 to 71 was kind of confusing too lol.

Still a long way to go.

Yes, starting with the context of the carryover makes the start of the day easier.

Starting with the non-carryover handicap;

bar0 to bar1 dv, tape short, ftt, pt1 long. bm long
bar1 to bar2 dv, tape long, pt2, pt3, bo rtl short
bar2 to bar3 iv, acc tape, ve, ftt, pt1 short, bm short
bar3 to bar4 iv, acc tape, pt3, pt2, ve, bo rtl long of bar1-2
bar4 to bar5 dv, ftt, fan tape,
bar5 to bar6 iv, acc tape, ve, bo rtl short of bar3-4
bar7 to bar8 dv, lateral, no wait
bar9 iv, bo bar

Using pencil thin lines for building the FF from tapes supports the effort.

Also, coloring your ftt's helps keeping the nested fractals in order. As you build your D-nD-D channels, see what makes the Dominant traverse different from the non-Doms by lining up volume.

If you are gonna annotate gaussians that way, it's also best to build on a single bar's granularity. Then as you scan over that layer of incr or decr bars, the next grouping will present itself as clusters. Do the next layer and soon the relationship between tapes, traverses and channels of price and the relative peaks and troughs of volume will become clearer. A bar-by-bar log builds sports memory.

 

[stepan7]

...
Still a long way to go.

No, it's very easy.
You have my software.
Download ES market replay files for any particular set of days.
Set session for "US Equities RTH".
Remove all indicators, but "1.618".
Hit "Shift+A" or "Shift+Z" for defaults.
Run it starting from 9:30 AM, with speed 2x-3x-6x.
It will take you 195-130-65 minutes per loaded day (390 min).
While running:
- Hit "SpaceBar" time to time, to switch between "Global Channels" and "Today Channels".
- Pay attention to Volume vs Volume Pace Levels (i.e Volume Ranking).
No need to do anything, just watch.
Run as many time same day until you "Get It".
When you feel you "Get it", run again and place simulated trades as day unfolds.
Move to run the next day.

You may have a question - How I will know I "Get It" ?
Believe me, when you "Get it", you will know it, right away.

HTH.

 

[stepan7]

Power of JHM.

@Simples WMCN? -

View attachment 184996

QQQ

 

[tiddlywinks]

I have what I hope is an easy help request.

Can someone provide a link or a chart(any symbol/time frame), showing/explaining the proper way to perform a Reverse Chronological volume test? Similarly, I have confusion with the concept of "Retro", which is not a volume test, but a concept introduced through logging in context to laterals, I believe. I'm unable to locate useful descriptions/explanations/usage for some reason. FWIW... Traders Laboratory has reformatted their site. Previously bookmarked pages are not as expected, and many links in posts are completely broken.

Thanks in advance for your insights.

 

[Sprout]

I have what I hope is an easy help request.

Can someone provide a link or a chart(any symbol/time frame), showing/explaining the proper way to perform a Reverse Chronological volume test? Similarly, I have confusion with the concept of "Retro", which is not a volume test, but a concept introduced through logging in context to laterals, I believe. I'm unable to locate useful descriptions/explanations/usage for some reason. FWIW... Traders Laboratory has reformatted their site. Previously bookmarked pages are not as expected, and many links in posts are completely broken.

Thanks in advance for your insights.

Market System of Operation
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/market-system-of-operation.280654/page-6#post-3917844

I'm getting my butt,...
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-on-a-daily-basis.275733/page-16#post-3829329


It's easier to illustrate on a log.

Let's use the example of a trend with 4 price bars - P1, T1, T1, P2. First bar is a high volatility bar and can be measured. 2nd and 3rd bar's are IB's with decr vol, therefore "wait" calling forth a Lateral ID. At this declaration (Lat3), there is no longer a wait to measure bars as long as the Lateral is valid.

So at this point in the log, there are three rows, the first row has the P1, the next rows have "wait" in the Event column and a line drawn through the VTP cells. Bar4 as it is an IB to the 1st bar of the Lateral is measurable. The fact that it's the fourth bar AND an IB calls forth "retro". To do retro, you are also doing rev chron. Rev chron is cycling through the volume elements that have already presented themselves in reverse chronological order, looking for a repeat. Consider how PP!'s are built.

On the log, the Event Column gets the position in the Lateral the bar occupies. So in the above case, bar2 gets a "2" in the Event Column and a line strike through the VTP cells. Bar3 gets a "3" in the Event Column and the same strike through line on it's row. Bar4 qualifies as "retro" and one goes back to start at bar2 and measure, then bar3 and measure, now with those two measurements in place, the "retro" bar can get a valid ID. If bar4 is not an IB relative to bar1 then it get's measured but without bar2 and bar3's ID since they are a wait.

In this example if bar4 was a retro and a P2>P1 as true then it's an Ae EE. If bar4 was not a retro then it's ID would be a repeat of P1 and no EE is present.

btw, degapping is required for the above. A tick is a tick and sometimes makes all the difference.


HTH

 

[Sprout]

I have what I hope is an easy help request.

Can someone provide a link or a chart(any symbol/time frame), showing/explaining the proper way to perform a Reverse Chronological volume test? Similarly, I have confusion with the concept of "Retro", which is not a volume test, but a concept introduced through logging in context to laterals, I believe. I'm unable to locate useful descriptions/explanations/usage for some reason. FWIW... Traders Laboratory has reformatted their site. Previously bookmarked pages are not as expected, and many links in posts are completely broken.

Thanks in advance for your insights.

Also to note, my description of putting the lateral bar # in the Event Column is different than what Jack outlined. He put the lateral bar # in the Price Case Column. He then placed the price case in the Event Column.

Functionally both ways are still the same, it's just for me, I found it easier to keep track of where I was in the VTP by keeping the flow left to right across the log. Since retro's are associated with laterals, it makes more sense to me to track the lateral logic by the retro column.

In the previous chart snippet, bar 6:55 is labeled as a BO,T1. By understanding rev chron, retro and UL, bar 6:50 better fits that ID which sets up the following Ae EE.

The logic when used in sequence, rev chron/retro process marks the beginning of a trend to a previous bar or pre-previous bar.

 

[tiddlywinks]

Market System of Operation
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/market-system-of-operation.280654/page-6#post-3917844

I'm getting my butt,...
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-on-a-daily-basis.275733/page-16#post-3829329


It's easier to illustrate on a log.

Let's use the example of a trend with 4 price bars - P1, T1, T1, P2. First bar is a high volatility bar and can be measured. 2nd and 3rd bar's are IB's with decr vol, therefore "wait" calling forth a Lateral ID. At this declaration (Lat3), there is no longer a wait to measure bars as long as the Lateral is valid.

So at this point in the log, there are three rows, the first row has the P1, the next rows have "wait" in the Event column and a line drawn through the VTP cells. Bar4 as it is an IB to the 1st bar of the Lateral is measurable. The fact that it's the fourth bar AND an IB calls forth "retro". To do retro, you are also doing rev chron. Rev chron is cycling through the volume elements that have already presented themselves in reverse chronological order, looking for a repeat. Consider how PP!'s are built.

On the log, the Event Column gets the position in the Lateral the bar occupies. So in the above case, bar2 gets a "2" in the Event Column and a line strike through the VTP cells. Bar3 gets a "3" in the Event Column and the same strike through line on it's row. Bar4 qualifies as "retro" and one goes back to start at bar2 and measure, then bar3 and measure, now with those two measurements in place, the "retro" bar can get a valid ID. If bar4 is not an IB relative to bar1 then it get's measured but without bar2 and bar3's ID since they are a wait.

In this example if bar4 was a retro and a P2>P1 as true then it's an Ae EE. If bar4 was not a retro then it's ID would be a repeat of P1 and no EE is present.

btw, degapping is required for the above. A tick is a tick and sometimes makes all the difference.


HTH

View attachment 185246

Thanks a lot @Sprout .

Your explanation and chart explains "retro" well, and streamlines working with lats quite a bit for me. Simply put, I was not doing THAT, and there goes 2 inventions, bye bye!! Streamlining is a great thing! Thanks.

I'm still confused with Rev Chron however. It is a Volume Test, not specific to a lat formation. I'm not seeing the difference between Rev Chron and Repeat. Rev Chron, volume testing of ANY measurable that is NOT a repeat, I don't know If I understand what to do.

Using your 4-bar example, P1, T1, T1, P2.... Bar 2 has DV in relation to bar 1. It is not a repeat of bar 1, a P1. P1 being the start of a sequence, there is nothing else to Rev Chron, Bar 2 is ID'd as T1 and the volume test of bar 2 stops. Bar 3, has equal or DV in relation to bar 2, a T1. There is no P2 as of yet, so a repeat (NEW) T1 is allowed, bar 3 is ID'd as T1, the volume test for bar 3 stops. Bar 4, has IV in relation to bar 3. With IV, it cannot be a repeat of T1. Begin Rev Chron... Since bar 2 is also a T1 and it has been determined that bar 4 can not be a repeat T1, Rev Chron moves to bar 1, a P1. P1 is killed, suppressed, not allowed, after a T1. Bar 4 is ID'd as P2 and the volume test of bar 4 stops. Is this correct??

Some stuff presented itself this last week that has me reviewing my knowledge of volume testing. I've also made a few new synapse connections, not a-ha, with regard to exactly this and EEs.

Thanks for any further input or clarification.

btw, A tick is a tick and sometimes makes all the difference. Degap be damned!!