On 10-case geometry and beyond

[Simples]

2-bar combinations are miniatyre representations of multiple bar representations. I've updated an illustration provided by @Sprout earlier in these threads in order to expand my understanding and path to integration. This is also an idealized version of events with an attempt to bridge fractals through volatility (lateral vs non-lateral PA):

 

[Simples]

When in doubt, also single bars may provide some additional clues to context. Here's a simple update to earlier attachment:

 

[tiddlywinks]

Hi Simples.

Im a little pressed for time right now but wanted to chime in.

Regarding your "cases"... it's critical to remember that bars are the building blocks of TAPES.
And every tape, as is every container must have P1, P2, and P3 established. The "case" document, the original and yours, is somewhat misleading as 1,2,3 can be created with a minimum of 2 bars, or it may require many bars, even for a tape. Once P3 has been established, regardless of number of bars to get there, there are 5 possible positions for tape continuance... Inside the RTL/LTL, On the LTL, outside the LTL, On the RTL, and outside the RTL. Looking at the bare minimum for understanding and recognition of the cases is necessary... In real-time however, bare minimum 1,2,3 requirements is just something that occurs when/as it does. What Im trying to say is do actual TAPE ANNOTATING. That will have much more teaching power for you than getting caught up looking for only minimum requirement occurrences in real-time. Each container, tape included, has only 1 set of P1, P2, P3 in order to move forward. Must never be forgotten

 

[Sprout]

I've concluded some work that needed done, and will be continuing working on the 10-case geometry and beyond in order to assist my own understanding, integration and needs for discovery.

The 10 cases may be summarized like this (feel free to provide corrections/additions/debriefs):

View attachment 182474

Some "annotations" above are meant to provoke thought, reflection and integration. Ie. we see there is "breath" in the 10-case geometry itself, with volatility ranging from contraction to expansion in 2 dimensions, as well as possible short-term anticipations for the next bars. The important parts are in the details and relationships above, but with no finalized conclusions (these are just idealized drafts of ideas).

Good effort Simples!


A couple of things,

1) The cluster of 4 internals (plus 10th price case) would be grouped as volatility contractions. The grouping of flaws is promoted afaik by spydertrader whereas Jack explicitly expresses that there are no flaws in the market's system of operation.

2) StB and StR are kinda two-faced depending on the sentiment of the second bar. As currently illustrating in the diagram, they are BO's of the RTL on the way to the possibility of becoming an OB. StB, StR and OB's frequently signal an upcoming change in the trending tape.

3)The Sym's third bar should be another IB to keep the pattern congruent.

 

[Sprout]

Hi Simples.

Im a little pressed for time right now but wanted to chime in.

Regarding your "cases"... it's critical to remember that bars are the building blocks of TAPES.
And every tape, as is every container must have P1, P2, and P3 established. The "case" document, the original and yours, is somewhat misleading as 1,2,3 can be created with a minimum of 2 bars, or it may require many bars, even for a tape. Once P3 has been established, regardless of number of bars to get there, there are 5 possible positions for tape continuance... Inside the RTL/LTL, On the LTL, outside the LTL, On the RTL, and outside the RTL. Looking at the bare minimum for understanding and recognition of the cases is necessary... In real-time however, bare minimum 1,2,3 requirements is just something that occurs when/as it does. What Im trying to say is do actual TAPE ANNOTATING. That will have much more teaching power for you than getting caught up looking for only minimum requirement occurrences in real-time. Each container, tape included, has only 1 set of P1, P2, P3 in order to move forward. Must never be forgotten

I agree, diligent tape annotating takes work and also reaps benefits like compound interest of the mind.

To further clarify, I interpret what tiddlywinks is referring to as pt1, pt2, pt3 of price annotations which is distinct from the P1, P2, P3 volume annotations. (in the progressive expansion of the hershey universe.)

 

[Sprout]

Thought I'd post here to first say hello to the remaining JH cronies/minions/kool-aid drinkers/believers/traders and to just give an overall thanks to all involved for the JH stuff!!

As JH often said of his methods, "you know that you know".

Today was my epiphany that I know that I know.

Here's my 4 minute trading chart of Russell 2000 for today. It was annotated and traded in real time. A near 60 point linear range today. Do I dare say I captured 87% of that linear range? X3 contracts? Nah... that would mean I captured 261% of the daily linear range, clearly impossible. I also played point, click, point, click with NQ today, but I felt Russell would be "safest" for me today and where I spent most of my time since Im "rusty" with REAL volatility.

Now Im not here to toot my horn. I just want to remind that 3x Daily ATR is doable by just following the JH guidelines, in whatever way makes sense for your own way of trading.

There is a thread here in ET called "Getting down and dirty is where the rubber meets the road". It has a lot of insight, just saying. And It helped me to "know". Here's a link... https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ty-is-where-the-rubber-meets-the-road.195287/

Anyway, Im not asking for critique of my annotations, or the like. If you have questions that you think I may be able to help you answer for yourself, I'll be happy to give my insights. On the chart, the Blue channel began on Jan 24th or 29th depending on guassian interpretation, and was accelerated on Friday. The yellow hz lines above are naked POCs, iow, nothing to do with JH. FWIW, I had 20 trades in RTY today.

Hope y'all are doing well!
And thanks!!

Steve

Congrats tiddywinks!

Also, another great thread link!

 

[tiddlywinks]

I agree, diligent tape annotating takes work and also reaps benefits like compound interest of the mind.

To further clarify, I interpret what tiddlywinks is referring to as pt1, pt2, pt3 of price annotations which is distinct from the P1, P2, P3 volume annotations. (in the progressive expansion of the hershey universe.)

Correct Sprout, pt1,2,3 of price/container annotation. Thank you for clarifying.

And that leads back to my reply to simples...

You see, it is very easy to confuse annotations, just as easily as it is to get confused by, lets call it minutia of the cases. Sprout mentioned several factors regarding the cases. I suggest annotating tapes as a drill. Each tape, like any container, has only one set of pt1,2,3. At the same time, all 10 cases can/may be experienced within a given container. And pt1,2,3 must complete as a volume sequence before a new pt1,2,3, and a new container can be defined.

What I am trying to say is do things necessary to make real-time comfortable, confident, enjoyable, and profitable. Don't get bogged down with every little detail. Much/most of what JH provided are GUIDELINES, not rules. When you experience the appearance of things and associated activity in real-time, that's when you will learn what you don't know... and that's the same place where you know that you know lives!

 

[Simples]

Starting up here, though not sure how to reconcile ABC-turns with P1 and P2's when volume doesn't follow DOM PA 100%.

Using a new color scheme that I believe is easier to read bar-for-bar, based on other color schemes and ideas already presented earlier in the thread and some trial and error. Doji's are aqua and only properly established EOB (body <= 1/5 of range). They're not JH, but may make sense for this color scheme.

 

[baro-san]

The more you work on Jack Hershey's method, the more you realize that he told you so, but you misunderstood what he meant. He chose his words very carefully (as spydertrader did too). Jack warned people not to invent.

From time to time, coming back to the basics, forgetting (almost) everything you think you learned, and (definitely) everything you added to the method, usually allows you to progress.

 

[Sprout]

Starting up here, though not sure how to reconcile ABC-turns with P1 and P2's when volume doesn't follow DOM PA 100%.

Using a new color scheme that I believe is easier to read bar-for-bar, based on other color schemes and ideas already presented earlier in the thread and some trial and error. Doji's are aqua and only properly established EOB (body <= 1/5 of range). They're not JH, but may make sense for this color scheme.

View attachment 182501

Turns overlay as a layer by following the pt1,pt2,pt3,ftt,FTT,ve,VE,fbo,FBO,XO,RTL,BO points. Using parallel lines to create parallelograms which are the containers of price movement, channel annotations encapsulate the ohlc of the bars. Trends are profit segments that are a single to multiple bars long. Closes define the sentiment of the bar. Price cases define the forms of multiple bar combinations. Connecting the bars in two bar combinations is building a tape. When tapes expand to include other bars that require the rtl to be fanned then a channel is forming from the non-Dominant traverse. Channels require two traverses to form, Dominant and non-Dominant. They follow the fundamental fractal pattern of Dominant move, to non-Dominant retrace of that move and a return to Dominance with either extending or failing short of previous gains. This pattern can be seen down to the 5m intrabar and on up to the monthlies. Three is the minimum. A trading fractal, a faster one and a slower one. More channels create a broader dataset to draw from as well as signaling more trading opportunities.

Regardless of the number of channels, long and short interlock.


Lookin at the chart, we might have to get into degapping for accurate volume measurements.

Your volume annotations lead us back to defining Failsafes. Failsafes being a design mechanism to eliminate errors and provide protection. The bookmark convention is a short green horizontal line that is placed at the high or low of the bar away from the movement of price. When this line is XO then we have a reversal of sentiment which is labeled as BM,rev. The second failsafe is our trusty rtl, our line in the sand. This line can be amended as a trend develops into segments, tapes into traverses into channels upon channels. A rtl is drawn with a ltl as parallel lines to connect pt1 and pt3 of price as one boundary and pt2 as the farthest excursion away.

The rtl and ltl are navigational aides, they contain price and we know when our boundaries are crossed. When a rtl is XO then it's a BO. When a ltl is XO then it's a VE. This rtl was first defined in a two bar combination. The second bar is our pt3. This geometric point 3 is the trough of price.

Applying the above to include all your tapes would support clarifying where the volume annotations are assigned.

Place bar numbers for additional comments.