Oklahoma, I love this State.
- Thread starter Wallet
- Start date
All you technically need to meet the requirements of a democracy is a system of government where the people have the power to govern themselves either directly or indirectly through elected official. You can still meet these requirements in a country where the government controls the media and greatly restricts freedom of speech.
I agree with you in principal that you can't have a healthy democracy without freedom of speech, but this might actually happen some day if we aren't careful. People are becoming so sensitive that they may actually start trying to pass legislation to keep themselves from being offended. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see our country start to chip away at the 1st amendment just like they have the 2nd amendment.
Any real world examples that come to mind?
https://www.pacificcouncil.org/newsroom/do-indians-have-freedom-speech
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/06/article/free-speech-under-fire-in-india/
Not off hand. I was speaking theoretically. A quick google search shows that India is quite restrictive of free speech despite the fact that they are a democratic republic. I would hate to see the same thing happen here.
Yes, we should fight tooth and nail for things like freedom of speech. For example, in Russian they sending people to jail for reposting a tweet that criticizes government. Noone in US in their right mind would want to live like this.
So what we are seeing is the erosion of true democracy in India because of an increasing curb on free speech to intimidate government critics. That rather makes my earlier point.
Just in time.... this happens today.
Officials: Mass Oklahoma inmate release is nation's largest
- By SEAN MURPHY Associated Press
- Oct 31, 2019 Updated Oct 31, 2019
FILE - In this Tuesday, Aug. 27, 2019, file photo, Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt speaks at the Cox Business Center in Tulsa, Okla. More than 400 Oklahoma prisoners are expected to be released on Monday, Nov. 4, 2019, in what state officials say will be the largest single-day discharge of inmates in the nation's history. The effort is being championed by the state's new Republican governor Stitt, who wants the state to lose its dubious ranking as the state with the highest incarceration rate in the country.
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — More than 400 Oklahoma inmates are expected to walk out of prison Monday in what state officials say is the largest single-day mass commutation in the nation's history.
The Oklahoma Pardon and Parole Board is expected to approve the commutations Friday and forward them to Gov. Kevin Stitt, a former CEO who has made it a priority for Oklahoma to lose its ranking as the state with the highest incarceration rate in the nation.
"The governor plans to review and take immediate action on the ... docket as soon as he receives the board's recommendations on Friday," said Stitt spokeswoman Baylee Lakey. "The governor applauds the Pardon and Parole Board's dedication to fulfill the will of the people through the ... docket, giving hundreds of non-violent, low-level offenders an opportunity at a second chance."
The commutations will be processed by prison officials over the weekend, setting them all up for release on Monday, said Steve Bickley, the new executive director of the Pardon and Parole Board.
Bickley says Monday's release is the most on a single day since former President Barack Obama commuted the drug sentences of 330 federal prisoners on his last day in office.
Oklahoma voters approved a state question in 2016 that made simple drug possession and low-level property crimes misdemeanors instead of felonies. A bill approved earlier this year and signed by Stitt applied those sentences retroactively and authorized an accelerated, single-stage commutation docket for those who qualify.
The agency initially identified nearly 800 inmates imprisoned for simple possession and another 98 convicted of low-level property offenses, but some had additional sentences to serve or were otherwise ineligible. Bickley said any inmate with a serious misconduct while incarcerated or those whose commutation was opposed by the local prosecutor or a victim were not included on Friday's docket.
"At the end of the process, we expect the amount to be discharged to be in excess of 400," Bickley said. "A lot of work has been done to make sure the spirit of the law is being implemented. We're not blanketly saying everybody should get out prison. We're trying to do what's right and fair."
Former Oklahoma House Speaker Kris Steele, who has spearheaded initiatives aimed at reducing the state's prison population, described the mass commutation as evidence of a historic shift in the way Oklahomans view crime and punishment.
"Historically, many in Oklahoma have seen incarceration and excessive sentences as politically expedient," Steele said. "We are breaking away from that model as we understand not only does it generally make a situation worse, but it also costs a fortune."
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Not that I condone drug use, but there are plenty of folks behind bars that are there for petty drug related crimes. This bill was basically commuting those who crimes would today be a misdemeanor. I believe also they had to be a good inmate, no trouble while confined.
We have a bad private prison problem. However the last couple of election cycles have had bills aimed at correcting some of it.
I think we’re talking apples and oranges here. Do most people want “open carry” everyone walking around with a firearm over their shoulder? If they have any brains at all the answer is no, and most people won’t even if allowed.
IMO unless your in an armed security or peace officer position, there’s no reason to make an armed presence. You actually make yourself a target and lose the element of surprise if your goal is self protection.
That being said, is it ok to have a weapon on my person, in my vehicle, absolutely. And I agree with some type of basic restrictions, court house, bars, schools, no felons, certain age restrictions (actually I’d raise the age and give exemptions for military service.)
But I do not feel the government has the right to bar me from being able to arm myself. Which is the underlying theme of Constitutional Carry laws, stripping the government as much as possible, from the ability to take or confiscate weapons. Open carry is just the natural byproduct of the laws intent, freedom.
The people in Oklahoma by large do not want permits to carry a firearm and they feel the need of protecting that right from federal overreach. I’d say that holds true in almost all constitutional carry states. This wave of states gun rights has swung into high gear the past few years being fed by the daily assault on the 2nd Amendment by the MSM.
Now do I advocate for proper training, basic understanding of fire arm laws, absolutely. If you’re going to arm yourself you’d better understand the legalities of your actions when you pull your weapon.
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The definition of "true democracy" can vary greatly from person to person or from country to country. If the majority of the Indian population want significant restrictions to freedom of speech, then that's a reflection of what true democracy means to them.
I think to some extent we've found common ground. We both feel like there are certain inalienable rights contained within the constitution, and we shouldn't accept their removal even if they're removed using the proper legal channels. IMO, the entire bill of rights should be placed into this category. You may not go that far, and that's fine, but hopefully you at least understand where I'm coming from.
I see where you are coming from, but I still see a false equivalence between free speech and guns. I don't think the Indian population favors the speech restrictions except, maybe, those in power, because the initiative is to curb the government's critics. If it continues, then that's the beginning of the end.