Ocho and/or Tree ----- Quick legal Question

[Tony Stark]

Well, not being rude, but it wasn't your opinion (or prediction lol) I asked for in the OP regarding the discovery phase of a trial like this.

Your opinion is just that, an opinion. I can get those all day long.
Ocho and Tree went to school for these things.

Well, not being rude,but this is an opinion forum

 

[Overnight]

Well, not being rude, but it wasn't your opinion (or prediction lol) I asked for in the OP regarding the discovery phase of a trial like this.

Your opinion is just that, an opinion. I can get those all day long.
Ocho and Tree went to school for these things.

It was not until this thread I learned that (apparently) Gato and Treefrog are attorneys. Do you guys still practice, and in which specialty?

 

[Tony Stark]

and Tree went to school for these things.

Trees past posts on legal matters suggest he went to one of those for profit online schools.

 

[El OchoCinco]

I call em like I see em down here in politics, and at least imo, Tree's opinion/narrative/prognostication on many things is spot on. I don't agree with his, and pretty much everyone else down here, when it comes to this financial support, billions monthly, for the Ukraine into infinity, because that's what it's going to be until Putin dies, but other than that, Tree has a pretty good grip on things. His two posts above were quite informed. Ocho may lean a little left, but he's not an extremist and always worth the read, whether I agree or not.


(I quoted you so you'd see the question below... else it might get lost in the mud here)

Speaking of.... Ocho... you live in NYC right? How do you feel about this clerk that stabbed and killed that guy in self defense being charged with 2nd degree murder?

The problem with the NY case is self-defense usually has to be in kind. Someone comes to punch you in a bar fight, you cannot pull your gun and shoot him. If you are going to kill someone then there has to be a serious threat to your life a reasonable person would believe could lead to the lose of their life.

If you pick a fight with me in the bar I cannot take a knife and stab you. Self-defense cannot be used to respond with a higher level of violence you receive by simply claiming you feared for your life. Of course this is a standard which cna be debated to a jury as to whether the person feared for their life and responded with a reasonable action to defend themselves and perhaps did not intend the consquences of the person dying.

This case is a little grey because the guy came behind the counter and assaulted the man twice and I am hearing he woman got in on the attack as well. An older man against a taller younger person being aggressive, the old man grabbed a knife to defend himself. He could merely have been trying to get him off of him and get away stabbing him 3 times which led to his death.

Another issue is he had a kitchen knife behind the counter and that might not be legal having a weapon like that.

Video shows the victim was aggressive and the old man did nothing wrong to warrant that. It was not necessarily an accident but was not clear murder. I think going behind the counter and shoving and grabbing the old man is enough to support a claim of self defense a jury could easily agree with if it should get that far.

I think any DA would see the extreme difficulty in bringing such a case and have a good chance of winning which means charges will either be reduced to a lesser manslaughter or dropped altogether.

Legally carrying a gun and using it in self defense is not the same as picking up a knife and stabbing someone....

 

[Tony Stark]

The problem with the NY case is self-defense usually has to be in kind. Someone comes to punch you in a bar fight, you cannot pull your gun and shoot him. If you are going to kill someone then there has to be a serious threat to your life a reasonable person would believe could lead to the lose of their life.

If you pick a fight with me in the bar I cannot take a knife and stab you. Self-defense cannot be used to respond with a higher level of violence you receive by simply claiming you feared for your life. Of course this is a standard which cna be debated to a jury as to whether the person feared for their life and responded with a reasonable action to defend themselves and perhaps did not intend the consquences of the person dying.

This case is a little grey because the guy came behind the counter and assaulted the man twice and I am hearing he woman got in on the attack as well. An older man against a taller younger person being aggressive, the old man grabbed a knife to defend himself. He could merely have been trying to get him off of him and get away stabbing him 3 times which led to his death.

Another issue is he had a kitchen knife behind the counter and that might not be legal having a weapon like that.

Video shows the victim was aggressive and the old man did nothing wrong to warrant that. It was not necessarily an accident but was not clear murder. I think going behind the counter and shoving and grabbing the old man is enough to support a claim of self defense a jury could easily agree with if it should get that far.

I think any DA would see the extreme difficulty in bringing such a case and have a good chance of winning which means charges will either be reduced to a lesser manslaughter or dropped altogether.

Legally carrying a gun and using it in self defense is not the same as picking up a knife and stabbing someone....

Thats what I was thinking.The thug was wrong but he never did any real harm to the store clerk and was just showing off for his girlfriend.If he was going to do any real harm to the clerk he would have done it before he was stabbed. The DAs case isnt meritless imo.In most red states Im sure a jury would not convict but there is a chance in NY imo.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Well, that's why I asked Ocho too.
And either way, politics has a way of mucking even the greatest of legal minds.

This is about TWTR.

Got to admit I am not caring or following twitter fiasco...
Musk wanting to buy twitter is a cluster fuck and I would dump tesla shares if he proceeds because there is nothing between tesla and twitter at all and he can either run both shittily or take care of one while the other runs into the ground (he is not a hands off guy).

Also I have not ready anything about the agreement between the parties.

What a lawyer tells a newspaper about what he belives is meaningless and should not be relied on for a legal opinion. We dont know what the document between Musk and Twitter says or what escape clauses exists or penalties. So I will happily sit this one out.

 

[vanzandt]

The problem with the NY case is self-defense usually has to be in kind. Someone comes to punch you in a bar fight, you cannot pull your gun and shoot him. If you are going to kill someone then there has to be a serious threat to your life a reasonable person would believe could lead to the lose of their life.

If you pick a fight with me in the bar I cannot take a knife and stab you. Self-defense cannot be used to respond with a higher level of violence you receive by simply claiming you feared for your life. Of course this is a standard which cna be debated to a jury as to whether the person feared for their life and responded with a reasonable action to defend themselves and perhaps did not intend the consquences of the person dying.

This case is a little grey because the guy came behind the counter and assaulted the man twice and I am hearing he woman got in on the attack as well. An older man against a taller younger person being aggressive, the old man grabbed a knife to defend himself. He could merely have been trying to get him off of him and get away stabbing him 3 times which led to his death.

Another issue is he had a kitchen knife behind the counter and that might not be legal having a weapon like that.

Video shows the victim was aggressive and the old man did nothing wrong to warrant that. It was not necessarily an accident but was not clear murder. I think going behind the counter and shoving and grabbing the old man is enough to support a claim of self defense a jury could easily agree with if it should get that far.

I think any DA would see the extreme difficulty in bringing such a case and have a good chance of winning which means charges will either be reduced to a lesser manslaughter or dropped altogether.

Legally carrying a gun and using it in self defense is not the same as picking up a knife and stabbing someone....

See Tony>>>> this is what's called an intelligent response. Now it can be debated, but the fact remains, in the immortal words of Judge Chamberlain Holler >>> "That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out objection."

 

[Tony Stark]

See Tony>>>> this is what's called an intelligent response. Now it can be debated, but the fact remains, in the immortal words of Judge Chamberlain Holler >>> "That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out objection."

And overruled

 

[vanzandt]

Got to admit I am not caring or following twitter fiasco...
Musk wanting to buy twitter is a cluster fuck and I would dump tesla shares if he proceeds because there is nothing between tesla and twitter at all and he can either run both shittily or take care of one while the other runs into the ground (he is not a hands off guy).

Also I have not ready anything about the agreement between the parties.

What a lawyer tells a newspaper about what he belives is meaningless and should not be relied on for a legal opinion. We dont know what the document between Musk and Twitter says or what escape clauses exists or penalties. So I will happily sit this one out.

Yeah, and my question was basically what is fair game in discovery. Almost generic, but it is specific in this case since proprietary algorithms are involved detecting bots etc.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Thats what I was thinking.The thug was wrong but he never did any real harm to the store clerk and was just showing off for his girlfriend.If he was going to do any real harm to the clerk he would have done it before he was stabbed. The DAs case isnt meritless imo

DA has to thhink whether he can get a jury to convict based on the facts and there is no way 12 jurors will look at this and find him guilty unless the charge is considerably lower. NY has laws about using a knife or carrying a knife of certain sizes which is a misdemeanor. This guy might have kept a knife behind the counter for self defense and that alone might be illegal. They could get him on a weapons charge and then find him not guilty of murder by way of self-defense. Main thing helping the guy is video of him being pushed and grabbed by a bigger man. WHo is going to see that and not put themselves in his shoes and be frightened to act out.