Ocho and/or Tree ----- Quick legal Question

Lol, are you serious? So you fondled what is effectively baking soda powder that has congealed. That was a weird jury box!


There were a few tiny rocks but most of it pulverized since they had to test it.... when am I going to have crack in my hands except when I wipe my own ass....
 
You guys just had to go there, didn't you. You know I cannot resist.




El Gato, I will need you as my attorney when Baron puts me on trial for video spam.
Now THAT is a movie I can watch over and over.
No stupid outer-space stuff, no under-sea crap, and no cheezy cgi monsters.
>>> Quality film. In my top 10.
 
There were a few tiny rocks but most of it pulverized since they had to test it.... when am I going to have crack in my hands except when I wipe my own ass....

Except it wasn't in your hands, it was in a cellophane or plastic bag. Didn't you ever have pop-rocks as a kid? Man, you are a seriously tactile-deficient cat lawyer.
 
But personally, I think it's going lower, unless it looks like Musk can be held to whatever he signed. The more we hear about a trial, the lower it will go. I think. Herd mentality. Fear. Rumors. Hype.
That's exactly why I asked.
I should have just jumped in.
Missed a hell of a move today, thats for sure.
 
The problem with the NY case is self-defense usually has to be in kind. Someone comes to punch you in a bar fight, you cannot pull your gun and shoot him. If you are going to kill someone then there has to be a serious threat to your life a reasonable person would believe could lead to the lose of their life.

If you pick a fight with me in the bar I cannot take a knife and stab you. Self-defense cannot be used to respond with a higher level of violence you receive by simply claiming you feared for your life. Of course this is a standard which cna be debated to a jury as to whether the person feared for their life and responded with a reasonable action to defend themselves and perhaps did not intend the consquences of the person dying.

This case is a little grey because the guy came behind the counter and assaulted the man twice and I am hearing he woman got in on the attack as well. An older man against a taller younger person being aggressive, the old man grabbed a knife to defend himself. He could merely have been trying to get him off of him and get away stabbing him 3 times which led to his death.

Another issue is he had a kitchen knife behind the counter and that might not be legal having a weapon like that.

Video shows the victim was aggressive and the old man did nothing wrong to warrant that. It was not necessarily an accident but was not clear murder. I think going behind the counter and shoving and grabbing the old man is enough to support a claim of self defense a jury could easily agree with if it should get that far.

I think any DA would see the extreme difficulty in bringing such a case and have a good chance of winning which means charges will either be reduced to a lesser manslaughter or dropped altogether.

Legally carrying a gun and using it in self defense is not the same as picking up a knife and stabbing someone....
So if someone in a bar starts punching me, I have to take it? How do I know he's isn't going to stop punching me and I might get beaten to death?
I've never heard of "in kind" in a self defense scenario.
 
So if someone in a bar starts punching me, I have to take it? How do I know he's isn't going to stop punching me and I might get beaten to death?
I've never heard of "in kind" in a self defense scenario.

Even if one were to go with the in-kind argument, the recitation of the facts should include that the black attacker was accompanied by a woman who displayed/wielded a knife.
 
Well, not being rude,but this is an opinion forum
SVZ makes incorrect judgements from time to time, but the beauty, in this country, is that those judgements are his to make. He's made a misstep asking Coach a legal question, but that's fine.
 
Last edited:
So if someone in a bar starts punching me, I have to take it? How do I know he's isn't going to stop punching me and I might get beaten to death?
I've never heard of "in kind" in a self defense scenario.

Does the law say you have to take it?

But you dont get to kill someone just because they punched you in a bar. Sorry.... that is not how the law works. If someone is punching you in a bar you dont automatically get to pull out a knife and stab them repeatedly. You can use equal force if reasonable or perhaps force to save yourself such as grabbing an item and hitting the person so that you can escape.

Also if you kill someone in a bar fight you will be arrested if you instigated the fight, continued the fight without fleeing when safe to do so, or escalated the encounter. If you are punched silly I doubnt you can defend yourself anyway. But if you get up and go stab the person in the neck and kill him....get ready for a trial.

As for what you never heard of:

Article 35 of the New York Penal Law Code explains when individuals are “justified” to use physical or deadly force to defend themselves or others. New York Penal Law 35.15 states that you can use physical force when and to the extent, you reasonably believe such to be necessary to defend yourself, or another individual from what you believe to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by another individual. However, a person may only use deadly physical force in limited circumstances. For instance, if an individual reasonably believes that another person is committing or trying to commit a kidnapping, forcible criminal sexual act, forcible rape, or robbery, they may use deadly physical force.

New York is governed by the concept of “Duty to retreat” and the “Castle Doctrine.” The duty to retreat concept means that before a person acts in self-defense, they should take reasonable steps to mitigate the risk of harm. Generally, the duty to retreat concept requires that an individual only uses force as a last resort.

Deadly physical force which is the type of force that is capable of causing a serious physical injury or death is not permitted unless a person reasonable believes that deadly physical force is being used or is about to be used on himself, herself or a third person. Even in such a situation however, the law imposes on a person a duty to retreat before he or she can resort to using deadly physical force if they can retreat with complete safety.
 
Last edited:
Does the law say you have to take it?

But you dont get to kill someone just because they punched you in a bar. Sorry.... that is not how the law works. If someone is punching you in a bar you dont automatically get to pull out a knife and stab them repeatedly. You can use equal force if reasonable or perhaps force to save yourself such as grabbing an item and hitting the person so that you can escape.

Also if you kill someone in a bar fight you will be arrested if you instigated the fight, continued the fight without fleeing when safe to do so, or escalated the encounter. If you are punched silly I doubnt you can defend yourself anyway. But if you get up and go stab the person in the neck and kill him....get ready for a trial.

As for what you never heard of:

Article 35 of the New York Penal Law Code explains when individuals are “justified” to use physical or deadly force to defend themselves or others. New York Penal Law 35.15 states that you can use physical force when and to the extent, you reasonably believe such to be necessary to defend yourself, or another individual from what you believe to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by another individual. However, a person may only use deadly physical force in limited circumstances. For instance, if an individual reasonably believes that another person is committing or trying to commit a kidnapping, forcible criminal sexual act, forcible rape, or robbery, they may use deadly physical force.

New York is governed by the concept of “Duty to retreat” and the “Castle Doctrine.” The duty to retreat concept means that before a person acts in self-defense, they should take reasonable steps to mitigate the risk of harm. Generally, the duty to retreat concept requires that an individual only uses force as a last resort.

Deadly physical force which is the type of force that is capable of causing a serious physical injury or death is not permitted unless a person reasonable believes that deadly physical force is being used or is about to be used on himself, herself or a third person. Even in such a situation however, the law imposes on a person a duty to retreat before he or she can resort to using deadly physical force if they can retreat with complete safety.

Was the victim confronted with deadly force? Yes, the perpetrator was accompanied by a woman who brandished knife.

Was the victim able to retreat or was he cornered by a confronting perpetrator? That is for the jury to decide. The video is there. Let's just say you would not want to be prosecuting that case. And that is without even getting to the probability of jury nullification regardless of the facts.

If he had been armed with a firearm. He had every right to kill both of them. Not in the beginning when the woman was retreating and when the man was just verbally threatening him. But when she reappeared with a knife and he had cornered him and was manhandling him he had every reason to fear for his life and his life was in danger by anyone's standards unless they are a loon working some political agenda.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top