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Objections to SCT
- Thread starter Joe Doaks
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Jack, it is so bizarre that for years you belittled my testing, and now I have given it up and you have started it. I gave it up when I began to understand what is really going on behind those enigmatic price and volume time series. I still think that, if it is true as your intimates claim that you do trade, and profitably, that you must be doing something like that subconsciously and just occupying your conscious mind with SCT voodoo to keep it out of the way.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Jack, the best tonic for "fear, anxiety and anger" is absolutely unambigous rules, quantified, coded, tested. Which you ain't got. MY goal in trading is to be so bored I can trade on full auto and diddle my girlfriend at the same time. I don't WANT to SCAN. I don't WANT to have to PAY ATTENTION. I just WANT THE FUCKING MONEY. For as little effort as possible. That's one thing that leaves me so cold about SCT. You have made trading into WORK. I want my codes to scream, "Wake up and trade, dummy!"
What you say may be true for you, but it isn't for me.
At some pint you will use some math to determine that scanning involves a finite number of cominations of elements of data sets.
the sets are in three basic sizes and there is a sufficiency aspect too that lessens the sizes occasionally.
as you know there are no surproses and analysis is a pairing of two matched elements of two sets. Both sets are finite.
I hope this make it easy for you to see that the opportunity is clean and nicely bounded.
So it is automated as a consequence. Coded as you say.
The old wrinkled sheets on this were done before the web, etc.
Let me remind you. you can get audio and transcripts of what it is like to be doing it like riding a bike. google sports memory for example and tag the search to associate it with me. There are vids too swowing the displays on all levels.
You do not have this stuff from what you say.
I conclude these are your first round of opbjections except for what I am going to post as my final post this evening.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Bsparkyman, if you are following Spydertrader, I do not mean to dissuade you. He is selfless (go figure) and generous (go figure). Make it work for you. I am not attacking SCT for ES. Yet.
Like you, it sounds and I feel, I would not attack any method. There are more profitable methods to trade than there are profitable traders.
Quote from jack hershey:
What you say may be true for you, but it isn't for me.
At some pint you will use some math to determine that scanning involves a finite number of cominations of elements of data sets.
the sets are in three basic sizes and there is a sufficiency aspect too that lessens the sizes occasionally.
as you know there are no surproses and analysis is a pairing of two matched elements of two sets. Both sets are finite.
I hope this make it easy for you to see that the opportunity is clean and nicely bounded.
So it is automated as a consequence. Coded as you say.
The old wrinkled sheets on this were done before the web, etc.
Why would I want to see your riding a bike in your spandex? I would associate that with fear and anger, but not greed! Clean this thread up a bit jack. You are making alot of people sick as they read your post now.
Let me remind you. you can get audio and transcripts of what it is like to be doing it like riding a bike. google sports memory for example and tag the search to associate it with me. There are vids too swowing the displays on all levels.
You do not have this stuff from what you say.
I conclude these are your first round of opbjections except for what I am going to post as my final post this evening.
I parsed this in color below.
I can understand that you needs some rest and that you have to pace yourself a little.
It was good to see the first 25 or so objections get on the table. they are very powerful things to anyone to consider. I think we may be able to get the ratio back up to 4 out of 5 people walking away from the PVT and SCT. They will have very sound reasons for where they have put themsleves in their lives.
Try to discontinue the personal comments to me. just because things didn't work out for you is no reason to express frustration towards me.
I am not going to post any of the automated annotaed charts; they are just displays and have nothing to do with the coded boxes that display the trading components.
No one expects you to operate in the paradigm we use. But you have to understand that moving stuff from one paradigm to another is what got you to where you are and do not want to be.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Jack, again, not getting you facts straight. Nowhere have I EVER criticized PVT.
the pool extractionparadigm is where PVT comes from. This turns out to be the template we also use for SCT.
So naturally the two finite sets of: data sets and the conclusion sets stem from the PVT paradigm.
You have not gotten off on the right foot it turns out. By by passing this process, you are just doing a lot of interpretation at levels that relate to your stepping out to the conventional orthodoxy to the extent that you did.
My experience with others who are skilled and bright is that they mess up when they do what you say you did and didn't do.
That is just the way it turns out.
That time frame does not appeal to me. Nor am I asking for anything.
i found that I had to take direction from the market and not invent anything nor develop any preferences. The basis of this is a maxim that seems to be quite convincing; to wit: the market is never wrong. You have chosen to not regard that maxim and there areconsequences.
I have a mature NQ system that took me six years and about $15-16K to develop. It is in my experience original and unique.
Good for you there are many many ways to make money trading. Nothing that I do is unique. I had to drop that possibility very early on. the reasons are that I trade in a perticular category where I am a parasite and I elected to front run the smart money and I deal in a manner that is anticipatory as a consequence.
It incorporates elements of SCT which I have found to work for NQ, but with changes so radical that you would barely recognize them as SCT elements.
That may turn out to be an excuse for you to use whenever you wish. Anyone can do what you did and it is a good idea to divorce the result from SCT, its paradigm and the consequences of trading SCT. You did spend years in public denial on thisp oint and that too has consequences.
I created this thread largely as an intellectual exercise because I was pissed off at the generally low level of the dialogue here re SCT.
This happens every week and usually the OP is a person who has similar attitudes and behavior to yours. This is not going to change. you see a lot o batting practice going on in SCT teaching threads and journals. We minimize the ball park talk. There is no game being played in a ball park, so we do not do scores as you see. It is not a reverse engineering issue since convnetional orthodoxy reverse engineering becomes quite frustrating to practioners. They come along every week too.
I am an engineer and mathematician by training, and the lack of precision and quantification and coding of SCT posters sticks in my craw.
I work on a weekly schedule with assorted programmers. This means we turn around assignments weekly. I am an unusual person in the opinions of others and in many fields. To be programming with me and be in conversation with me is an unusal experience. You are experiencing being on the wrong page with the wrong math for this paradigm. Sorry.
I am widely regarded here as a CFI, so who better to play Court Jester to SCT?
I do not know what CFI means so I'll pass on this.
And I am warming up for the inevitable endgame in Spydertrader's SCT thread.
I have pointed out many tasks above. It doesn't look too good based on my experience. I can appreciate that you are quickening the pace of how often and how many threads you are doing to warm up. when you move from the talk to the walk part it will be a lot clearer what your remaining warm up stuff will be. I am coasting.
Don't think they aren't reading this.
Okay.
You do yourself no good with them by being obstreparous.
You will find that I am a very fair and helpful person. We have a lot of stuff going on these days. there is lots of expertise in the group and there are many oppotunities ahead for their lifetimes. For me my fondest dreams have been answered and in many ways. We have a GO.
I can understand that you needs some rest and that you have to pace yourself a little.
It was good to see the first 25 or so objections get on the table. they are very powerful things to anyone to consider. I think we may be able to get the ratio back up to 4 out of 5 people walking away from the PVT and SCT. They will have very sound reasons for where they have put themsleves in their lives.
Try to discontinue the personal comments to me. just because things didn't work out for you is no reason to express frustration towards me.
I am not going to post any of the automated annotaed charts; they are just displays and have nothing to do with the coded boxes that display the trading components.
No one expects you to operate in the paradigm we use. But you have to understand that moving stuff from one paradigm to another is what got you to where you are and do not want to be.
Quote from windwalker:
I've spent all night reading up on this and so far all I can see is that Jack Hersheys method has been backtested and failed, then a few live calls were tried and none of them worked either.
Seems like an academic exercise with no real relation to trading
This is a very good clue for you.
I would follow your instincts.
This is not a "take away"; it just isn't a good idea for you to follow up on.
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